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Name: Atomic Snowflake
[ Original Post ]
Please could anybody who's child suffers from this problem make a list of their behaviour and difficulties. I'm convinced that my 8 year old has this problem - he's going back to Child Mental Health Services soon as I can't handle his behaviour.

His behaviour is:

Argumentative all the time - will argue black is white given half the chance.
Very immature behaviour - will roll around on shop floors and is always shouting and yelling.
Very Loud behaviour.
Very bossy.
Tells lies.
Refuses to take any responsibility for his actions.
Refuses to obey directions - will make excuses not to do things all the time.
Torments the toddler and likes to make him cry.
Insists on being the centre of attention ALL the time.
Is very active....almost hyperactive, but can concentrate on things when he needs to.
Is doing okay at school - intellectually good.
Seems to enjoy making us upset.
Says that he doesn't know when he's being naughty.

I'm aware that all kids suffer from these symptoms at some point during the week, but this is ALL the time - 24/7.....I am absolutely exhausted and feel stressed in caring for him.

His father (my ex) is very argumentative and defiant - a very difficult person who can't sustain relationships.

Does my description of my son sound anything like a child who suffers from ODD? He was assessed for ADHD when he first started school, but he'd just got a new teacher who was very good at managing his behaviour and I don't think that she was that honest when she filled in the questionnaire - he scored fairly low for ADHD, but his behaviour at home is FAR worse than it's ever been at school.

It's a struggle every day.
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Name: mar22 | Date: Jun 2nd, 2007 3:42 AM
yes this sounds like my seven yesr old boy, he too has adhd and odd, but with alot of supports and programing and meds and workers coming to the house he has truly come beyond this. it has taken a year to get him in control but i can say i used to resent him because he seemed so evilish if that makes sense but know he is the most warm loving child who does not hit me anymore your time will come to it takes alott of consistantsy and help from community agencies like social skills programs summer camps and in home support worker. look into acsd funding and see if any of the angencies can be of service acsd funding will help pay for these programs. good luck 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 1:20 PM
Thanks for your reply. He's seeing the Child Psychiatric Services on Wednesday. I live in the UK. I'm not sure what kind of support is out there for kids like this. I can't carry on the way we are though. It's just too much. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:02 PM
OMG Atomic!! You just described my son!!!!!! Yes, the not wanting to take responsibility, no empathy.....all of it!! Wow!! Yes, lets definately keep in touch on this!! 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:03 PM
OMG!!!!!!!!

I hope they can assess him properly and come up with some kind of strategy that might work! I'll even give him meds! I just can't do this anymore. It's killin' me!!!!!! 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:03 PM
Oh and the behavior comes out first and worse at home, I think because they feel the most comfortable and safe at home (lucky us!!). However before his meds for ADD Christopher started acting out in school too. Cutting up his books, fighting with other kids...thank God that part has gone!! 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:06 PM
Yeah, they got a support worker in to school for my son. His new teacher was good too - she did a good job with him. His Reception Class teacher was a wuss...yelled a lot, but couldn't handle the kids. He walked all over her!

He's so bright though. He's doing well with his grades and SATS! It's so frustrating. We can't go on holiday and I never get any respite from it! It's like constant. I'm not gonna see 40 if this carries on. It's making me ill. I've had blood tests at the doctors for exhaustion. I get the results this coming week. 


Name: homemommichele | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:11 PM
LOL I am answering in both posts!! I have noticed definately that the easy going teachers are walked all over and he gets nothing learned!! For preschool he had a sing songing little sweet talking teacher, and he was a terror. In grade school the past few years he has had strict teachers (backed up by a bad ass nun principle!!) and he has had no problems. This year he started up again before the meds, but guess what, laid back, easy going teacher!! He gets a nun for 3 rd grade!! Yay!! 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:16 PM
But how is it best to be at home? If me and my husband are strict with him he's just as bad as if we're tryin' to have fun and be more relaxed! Nothing works with this child!! It's just so frustrating!!!! I feel that we're all a victim of him!!!! We're just hanging around waiting to see how he feels that day as to how much we get done.........like a real Prima Donna!!!!!!!! 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:18 PM
From what I have read it is that he feels more safe and comfortable at home, more able to "let it all hang out" and be himself. He knows you will love him no matter how much of a demon he is. At school they care what their peers think, they don't think their teacher will like them if they are themselves (and they may be right) that is what I mean. 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:18 PM
We're trapped inside the house with him. Can't go for a daytrip, to the shops.......I can't take him with me to see my MIL.....my hubby has to take Toddles and go by himself. I miss seeing myh MIL, but I just can't cope with taking my eldest.

If we take him on trips out he trashes the day by moaning, ignoring what we say, tormenting Toddles etc. 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:20 PM
Oh, he loves his teacher! He wants to impress and please him! He says that he wants to go out with us and visit his gran, but that he doesn't know when he's being 'naughty'........how can he NOT know, when he can behave at school though :-/ He must have some awareness of himself. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:21 PM
Exactly!! I can take Connor out to eat and he will sit and eat, color on the placemats (given by family friendly places) etc. Christopher was always a terror. See about some meds for the ADHD, it has helped soooooooooooo much. Chris is on Adderall. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:21 PM
He probably knows, but pays more attention when he wants to impress his teacher. 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:27 PM
How long did the assessment take for your son?

In the UK it can take a while. I feel that I need them to do something NOW!!!!!!! I know it's gonna take some time. 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 3rd, 2007 11:27 PM
michelle - email me at [email protected] if you get the chance.

I'll have to go to bed now. It's really late.

ttfn ♥x♥ 

Name: mar22 | Date: Jun 4th, 2007 2:56 AM
i found that the more i yelled and reacted to my son the more behaviours he would do. when i stopped reacting and giving consequences for his behaviour and he new i ment it seem to help for example for hitting kicking or hurting someone he is to go directly to the table to practice safety meaning he had to sit their for 30 min with crayons colouring stuff playdou anything safe, he can have a snack and a drink but needs to practice saftey. this helped him calm down with the switch of things. everytime he hurts he nows now what to do it alot of work to instill this but if you stick it out its worth it. hope this is helpful, also my son didnt like shopping centres or stores nad have learned not to take him unless i can set him up for success meaning going to pick up one thing and its in and out and i will praise him for how well he did at the shopping centre now we can go for 15 min before he gets bored, he seemed to like his accoplishments as he wants to do good but his impulses sometimes dont allow him to, so these short trips help with his esteem and with my paitents. if i do a full shopping trip i get a sitter. So im not getting worked up and hes not feeling like a failure. hope these things are helpful, 

Name: mar22 | Date: Jun 4th, 2007 3:01 AM
oh i forgot to mwntion if you try the safety thing have a shoe box with things in it for him to be at the table with also he not allowed to talk until the last ten minutes you can sit with him and tell him how well hes doing and that his time is almost up and you can clour with him. if he throws the colouring things then he sits their with nothing, if he gets up and he will cause he has adhd, remind him that he needs to sit if hes doing it alot then remind him the time will start over.good luck 

Name: atomic snowflake | Date: Jun 4th, 2007 8:46 AM
thanx mar22 - I avoid taking him to the shops now as it's just too much to cope with now that I have the toddler.

I did do this thing with him where I'd give him a warning then if he was still bad, I'd sit him down at the table and make him write out 100 times "I must not hit my brother".....this gave him a chance to calm down and he quite enjoyed doing the handwriting practise! *LOL* This works at home okay, but it's when we're out that we struggle. I can't make him do the writing lines in the middle of a shop. As a consequence we're trapped inside the house. 

Name: MN-MOM | Date: Jun 4th, 2007 2:23 PM
This is definitely ODD, which my son has. However, after a year of working with him using both medication and behavior modification, it is MUCH better. So, there is hope. First, the only way we could deal with the ODD is to get the ADHD under control. It allowed him to slow down and think first. A couple of the biggest things we learned is to not let our voices sound emotional or let us know how much he irritated us. We used both rewards and consequences. As far as rewards, we used a chart system to earn small prizes and immediate praise for anything he did good (which sometimes was hard to find). As far as consequences, we used a lot of time outs...the key here is absolutely no talking to him during the time out no matter what he says. If at the end of the time he is still mouthy, add one more minute. Consistency is key, lots of positive praise, and absolutely no emotion when doling out the consequences...and medication. Also try to find something he really likes to do to get his mind off his behavior and maybe it's something you could do with him. Like I said, it's taken a full year for us, but there has been MAJOR improvement. 

Name: Priscilla the Egg Tree | Date: Jun 4th, 2007 9:20 PM
thanx for that MN-MOM - that's really good advice.

this is atomic snowflake by the way - I got banned in SAHMs. Sorry :-( 

Name: billy22 | Date: Jun 4th, 2007 9:32 PM
I have often wondered if this is what my son has as well! He has been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, Tourettes and OCD.....but nothing seems to work for him except when he's got one on one attention from somebody, doesn't matter who so long as ALL attention is on him! It is very exausting to say the least! He's going to be 13 next month and let me tell you, he's headed for nowhere fast! Meds have not helped him at all and trust me when I say we've tried EVERYTHING! So.....if you get any good advice, I would love to see it posted on here......PLEASE! 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Jun 4th, 2007 10:53 PM
Wow!! Thanks MN Mom, that is really helpful! Yes, getting Chris's ADHD under control has definately made a difference. 

Name: mar22 | Date: Jun 7th, 2007 3:18 AM
hello again well actually you could do the lines thing in the mall, it okay to do these things, yes its imbarassing and lots of people watching but i bet he would change his mind soon about acting up when the chance of one of his friends showing up seeing him right lines at the shopping centre. Their are no laws saying we as parents are only to disipline our kids at home, i too have had to learn this now i do the time out at the shopping centre and find the next time i go back the kids act up less cause they no mum means business, i always give a warning and ask do you need a time out on the floor or against a wall or can we keep walking. Its hard but worth it all the best to you and your family, just trying to be helpful take what you want and leave the rest cheers. 

Name: Priscilla the Egg Tree | Date: Jun 8th, 2007 1:46 PM
This stupid, b*tch nurse at Child Mental Health Services told me yesterday that I can't have my son assessed for ADHD as he scored low three years ago. I tried to explain that they did the assessment AFTER he'd had therapy at school, but she wasn't interested and she didn't listen to anything that I said to her.

I didn't even get to talk to the Psychiatrist...just this stupid woman who was unpleasant to me.

I went back to the doctor and she's going to see what she can do as she agreed that he DOES need assessing as his behaviour isn't improving as he's getting older - in fact, it's getting worse in some ways.

I'm so sick. My sister in law lives in Germany and she has a son with behavioural problems - he's had dozens of assessments, therapy and exercises! Loads of help....what do I get? fkn jack sh*t. 

Name: Kathy | Date: Jun 15th, 2007 9:38 PM
My son definitly has odd. He was 4 when he was diagnosed and he shows all the same signs that your child has. My son is defiant, and will fight me tooth and nail for anything. He is very aggressive when he doesn't get his own way. He loves to be right all the time. He has to be first to do everything and can't handle if he is not first. He has hit my 8 year old daughter, and constantly hits and hurts me as well. He is also very immature, and bossy (just like your child). He knows what he does is wrong but will admit he can't help it. He doesn't think about the consequences after he does something wrong. He just strikes when he is mad. It is like a spark or something. He gets mad, lashes out and hits me or his sister and then realizes he did something wrong and has to get punished for it. He is also doing good in school and has come a long way. He was having some fine motor skills issues but when school was over he really did well. If you go to Webmd.com/oppositionaldefiantdisorder it should tell you all the signs of odd. I have been doing alot of research so I know what to expect and what can be done for him. He is currently on medication (Adderall and risperdal)which seems to be helping but it is frustrating and exhausting. By the end of the day I am so tired I can hardly function.
I know he has adhd as well which seems to come along with odd and he is also showing signs of ocd as well. I am hoping that the meds will help with all of it.
Good luck and know you are not alone. 

Name: Layne | Date: Jun 20th, 2007 12:02 PM
keep pushing Atomic for help...change Doctors...Here in the states we moved to another state for our son and he has been to 2 differant cities before we found what we liked...Now we have switched 3 doctors in the office we are in...If it doesnt add up then get another opinion...I also research every med and behavior on the net along with diet..( you know this)
I think the phyciatrist (sp) is the best at helping.Not a medical doctor...I have no luck with them. 

Name: kirsten | Date: Jul 4th, 2007 9:35 AM
hi my 12 yr old is just the same some times i just want to kill him his brother has adhd and i am trying to find out about him as he is getting so much worse its just always about him and im finding it hard to cope how do you deal with it as im open to anything 

Name: stacey | Date: Jul 4th, 2007 1:06 PM
hiya i have a 14 month old boy and his dad has adhd but how can i tell if my son has it at such young age? we have quite a good idea that he got it tho wb plz x 

Name: sasha | Date: Jul 10th, 2007 4:28 PM
Sounds like your son suffers from Significant Negative Oppositional Tendancies (SNOT)
((just kidding))
You could check symptoms for autism, aspergers syndrome
and also take him to a physician who practices homeopathics that will do a heavy metal test and a food allergy test on him.
Many times that is all it is. Also, try cutting out dairy and feed him only whole foods in addition you may want to up his vitamins and Bcomplex vitamins and add a fish oil supplement. A stronger routine will help, but I suspect you may have a food allergy there. Good Luck. 

Name: sasha | Date: Jul 10th, 2007 4:36 PM
I forgot to mention when we took our son to a homeopathic physician after only a month of being on homeopathics, it was like a totally different calm kid. He was "normal" again. Unfortunately, we have to aggressively stay on it to keep him that way. We do not use meds. I only suggest that you seek out all options and get to the library and do the research on the different meds that they are putting your son on. 

Name: KathyK | Date: Sep 7th, 2007 6:04 PM
Atomic Snowflake,
Your description of your son sounds exactly like my son. He is very argumentative as well. He fights us on everything and to do everything. He will fight us to get dressed, eat breakfast, brush his teeth and get ready for school on a daily basis. He also has very loud behavior, very abusive, very physical, is also very active and hyper. He is also doing good in school as long as he is focused he is better. He has had no problems so far in his new class and I am hoping that continues. The bad behavior is definitly at home with his dad, sister and me. He is not always nice to his friends either so it is hard for him to keep friends which makes me sad for him.
He is currently on Focalin and Depakote and Risperdal at night to help him sleep. My son also says he can't help being naughty, and I really think he can't. I think he really doesn't mean to be this way but he doesn't know how to not be this way, it is really sad.
It is exhausting and frustrating and a 24/7 thing. It never goes away and takes up all of your time. I totally understand how you feel and wish it would stop.
Keep sharing your feelings and frustrations and it will help to at least get it all out. 

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