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We were running out of room girls so i started a new page for us! ↓
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| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 18th, 2006 2:36 PM |
| Oh,I did write more on the other "stolen" by angry ex if you want to read there first before replying here! ↑ |
| Name: pj754 | Date: Oct 18th, 2006 4:21 PM |
Lizzi--Holy crap!!! Your father has ANGRY written all over him!!! Lizzi, I'm so sorry you grew up in such an environment. Your right, your father shouldn't have been allowed to have children if that was how he was going to treat you and your brother. May I ask what kind of relationship does he now have with your brother? Do you and your brother communicate, today? How has your brother handled his life since being out of father's reach? Boy, Lizzi, if I was you, I wouldn't want anything to do with my father. Yet, you were taught to respect your parents no matter what. I certainly feel sorry for your mom for putting up with him all these years. Yet, her generation was taught to stand by your man through thick and thin. You are alot like your mom. Your both are timided and go along with whatever your father/husband says. Plus, if your father had a bad childhood, it's alot easier for him to pick on children and women. He was laughing while giving you and your brother a bath in cold bath water is just plain mean. Thank you for sharing your history with me. Alot of what you have been saying does make sense. There is nothing wrong for you to love your parents but you are an adult with your own life, therefore, your father can no longer treat you or tell you just what he chooses. I do understand how you can't stand up to him. He's instilled such a fear in you that is tough to get over. Being a heavy drinker didn't help the situation any but even through he quit drinking he still has issues he struggles with inside of him. Lizzi, there may come a day that your dad will apologize to you for his behavior towards you, your brother and your mother. Only he can come to that realization. But, if his pride is too high, he may never apologize.
Also, may I ask, how is your father's relationship with your son? Does he treat him differently than he did you or is he grouchy and stern with him, too? How does your son feel about him? You know, you have done a great job with your son!!! You have broken the cycle of abuse that you lived by raising a son to be proud of. The habitual patterns usually follow from generation to generation but are strong enough to put an end to you. My hat is off to you!!! Your a good mother and deserve alot of praise. Do you all have family gatherings during the holidays? Well, despite your father giving you credit for being born and living a good life, you are very important to this world. You provide good information and love to alot of us, who do care. Another cycle you are able to break. Well, please respond back when you can. Your right, just when you think your life is the worst, someone else didn't have it so good, too. I'm sorry!!! ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 18th, 2006 4:43 PM |
| pj754,you are a great mom! Please don't think that you aren't! Some day your son will see the big picture for what it really is and hopefully when that day comes he will ask you for your forgiveness! But even if that doesn't happen it doesn't make you a bad mom.Your son is no more than a puppet in his fathers and grandfathers game. Please don't hold your sons behavior against him,it isn't his fault.He is being mentally toyed with and controlled. I feel bad for him that he is being put through an unecessary mess like this,however it is in NO WAY YOUR FAULT!!!!!!! Be there for your son when he allows you to be,that's really all you can do for now. Continue to be the good mother you are to your other children while you wait for your son to come around.His dad and grandfather can't control him forever,(look at mini mouses situation). Because your son is a boy that's probably why he has let his dad and grandfather have such influence over him. Maybe he craves their attention and approval and they know it and use that as a way of turning him against you and trying to make him believe what they believe about you.You can't control what they say and do sadly,all you can do is hope and pray your son comes around one day and really wants to be a part of your life and hope he doesn't get too screwed up by them in the meantime.But please,please,please don't think you're a bad person or mother because you are NOT!!!! Your son will see this himself one day,God willing! I will pray for you and your son pj754,please cheer up okay? :) :) :)(((Big Hugs to you!!!!!))) ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 18th, 2006 5:19 PM |
| pj754,My brother as an adult confronted my dad about how he was treated growing up and dad told him,"well,if that's how you feel then we don't need to be friends!" My dad feels he did nothing wrong with us kids and in fact tells my mom it's HER fault we have issues! He refuses to own up to anything. My mom says that's o.k. because some day he will meet his maker and be forced to see how he treated people.My brother occassionally talks to my dad but they aren't close at all.My dad doesn't attend family get togethers so that's not an issue. We have holidays at my moms parents house,my dad won't go there. It's just as well I guess.He attends his side of the family get togethers when he feels like it but if not he makes my mom go to them alone!Then he bitches at her if she's gone too long!My brother and I were really close at one time but then he got lost in drugs and alcohol which he is now trying to pull himself out of. We talk,just not often and we do love each other.My dad tries to rule my sons world too. He gets mad at him if he wants to go to his friends house instead of comming to his. My dad has even so much as accused my son to my mom that my son must be gay! Just because my son still spends the night with his friend sometimes! My dad has a real messed up way of thinking.Sometimes my son will go over and help my dad with things he needs done and if they aren't done to my dads perfect satisfaction he will degrade my son sometimes to the point where my son will come home in tears and say ,"grandpas just so difficult sometimes!" And I will say,how would you like to live with him? And my son will say,"NO WAY!!!" Then I will say,"I know son,grandpas a difficult person!"But i still love my dad and want to make him happy,make since? ↑ |
| Name: pj754 | Date: Oct 18th, 2006 8:22 PM |
Lizzi---Thank you very much for encouraging words. It's nice to hear that I'm not a horrible mother. As much as I don't want to give up on him, I'm just afraid I keep pushing him father away. Since, I struggled with the contol of my dad and ex, I see how hard it is on my son. Yet, I've tried to teach him to stand on his own two feet. He has too good of a heart to cause any conflicts. Just like me. It's funny the older I get, the more vocal I become. The quiet little mouse the two of the expected of me is turning into a big rat. Sounds strange, huh??? I look at it as well, what can they do to me other than run their mouths? They are just words not facts or truths.
Gees, Lizzi, your dad does have issues. I'm sorry your brother has struggled with all of this. How could your father blame your mom? She has catered to his every need. Yeah, your right, he will never admit he's wrong. Your mom is correct, he will have to meet his maker one day and reap what he has sown. At least your son can see right through your dad. It's too bad he can't cherish the grandfather, grandson relationship. None of you are disrespecting him in any way if you voice your opinions to him. Your entitled to your own opinions. Telling him so doesn't make you less of a person either. You can always love him but don't have to agree with him. Yes, I can see you want to please him. But, I think you are trying too hard at it and from the sounds of him, none of you will get satisfaction from him. He's just that type of person. I'm sorry for you Lizzi. What a life you've had to live? Look on the brighter side, you have all of us on the forum, your mom, your husband and son. All, who really care about you. Well, thanks again for listening and your comments. ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 19th, 2006 1:28 PM |
| pj754,BINGO! you hit the nail on the head! you said your son has too good a heart? EXACTLY!!!!!! That's WHY he struggles so much inside himself and is so confused! He feels he needs to team up with dad and grandpa because they are all 3 men BUT,his confusion inside is that HE LOVES YOU TOO!!!!!! Only he is too afraid to show or express that because of the power and influence his dad and grandpa have over him!!!!!! Makes PERFECT since doesn't it?! ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 19th, 2006 1:32 PM |
| .......continuing.....,I only worry about what will happen to your son because of their "influence". Like I hope he never turns to drugs and alcohol or at worst a gun as a way out to end the madness of his own pain and suffering! I wish those ignorant a**holes could see what they were really doing to that poor kid! ↑ |
| Name: pj754 | Date: Oct 19th, 2006 2:27 PM |
| Lizzi---I completely agree. I am deathly afraid of what will happen to him in the long run. It took me years to get out from underneath their clutches and now my children have to deal with it. Yet, I can't control it. When I try to explain my experiences to my son, I'm labeled as a liar and I'm just like my mother and I'm only in this for the child support money. Personally, my son meet my mom when he was 1-1/2 years old. So, he only knows her from what he hears. Even that is a one sided story. Just last night, when the children came home from visitation, my daughter told me about the conversation they had with their father. Apparently, when I ground my son for disobeying rules, he runs and complains to his dad about them but only tells his dad what he wants him to hear. He's not conveying the full story to him. Then, his father tells him to behave like a two year old. Oh, ground me for a week, yeah, (clap) and ground me for two or three. He's teaching him to mock me. I get accused of snooping through his bookbag and folder. Well, his teacher brought it to my attention that cheating is becoming a widespread problem in her classroom. So, I bring this issue up with my son because I saw a paper in his folder from another student in his class and his sister has seen him do his homework on the school bus. However, he fails to explain to his father that I caught him cheating. Yes, he is trying very hard to please the male figures in his life so he tells them only the details of what he thinks they want to hear. He's just doesn't see what he's doing to himself. Not only is he playing two sides against the middle, he's trying to get his way. Instead of his father stepping up to plate to be a responsible parent, he's focusing on being our son's best bud. It's a constant beat my head up against a wall. In the past, I've spoken to my ex about our son sneaking and lying. Yet, the ex is wanting to always give him the benefit of the doubt. Then, when we go to court, he submits affidavits about my father-in-law calling our son a sneak. My father-in-law is a wise 65 year old man that sees things as black and white, there is no gray. He calls it like he sees it. The ex is purposely trying to undermind my authority and parentings skills. Honestly, our son is learning from the best, my ex. So, how can I get my son to see what his grandfather and father tell him isn't always the correct way? I can't. It's like I just go through lip service and nothing gets applied. You know, as much as I wouldn't want my son's father and grandfather completely cut off from his life but how can I not feel this way when this is what they are teaching him? I do believe this will effect him later on in his life!!!! I am hoping that counseling will give him the avenue he needs. It's like the saying goes, "You can lead the horse to water but you can't make him drink!" Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to compare him to an animal but children are a lot like horses. Until they realize they are hurting themselves is when they will change their thinking and ways. The simpliest tasks become a such a chore. You mentioned that my son is confused. Someone else said that to me as well. I can't help to believe that he's making his own decisions along the way. The counselor said to me that he already has his mind made up as to what he wants and it will be difficult to change him. I blame a lot of this on my dad and ex. They are very jealous of me and my husband. They are jealous because I'm happy and they are not apart of it. Yet, my dad had his opportunity but he blew it one too many times. As for my ex, I just want him to get on with his own life and leave mine alone. If I was to speak up and say something to my ex and father about their actions, they would laugh in my face and continue to disrupt things. Does this all make any sense to you? I just can't compete with this. I try not to let this get the best of me but it is always in the back of my mind. If you have any suggestions, please share. Thanks, Lizzi for listening. ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 19th, 2006 3:26 PM |
| Hi pj754! It really sucks when you have no control anymore,doesn't it? And it's not even about power or being in charge. It's about being a proper parent to your son and teaching him right from wrong and good ways of treating others.You and your son both are in awkward predicaments.He will either one day come around and see things as they really are or he will into adulthood side with his dad and grandfather on everything. But the choice will have to be his own I'm afraid. And the longer he is with them the more brainwashing they will be doing to him while all you can do is watch from the sidelines.Maybe you could send your son a card telling him how you feel about him. Sometimes kids get more out of that than they do hearing your voice because they can keep the card to themselves and read it when they have time alone and are ready on the inside to really give better thought in to what you have to say.It's worth a try. You should also explain to him your side of things and tell him that it is law for people to pay child support and that you are in no way getting rich from it! Let him know how much you love him and that would not change if you never recieved a penny in child support! Ask him to think about the past and how you have treated him. Ask him if he hasn't felt your love for him through things you've done for him,and the way you've treated him as well as said to him over the years.Tell him this card is yet another way you are reaching out to him and that even if he doesn't want to accept your love or return it right now,you want him to know that you love him very,very much and would love nothing more than to have a good relationship with him again. Tell him you will ALWAYS be his mom and be there for him when he needs you to be and would love to hear back from him soon.You might also want to include a sheet of paper along with a self addressed stamped envelope to make it even easier for him to reply,you never know,you might get surprised.Good luck pj754,I'm on YOUR side! :) ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 19th, 2006 3:31 PM |
| Maybe you could give it to him privately somehow so his dad and grandpa wouldn't have to know it existed. ↑ |
| Name: pj754 | Date: Oct 20th, 2006 3:20 AM |
| Hi Lizzi---Thanks for your encouraging words. I'll try giving him a card privately but I'm afraid he will show it to his dad. Hopefully, I will be able to reach him somehow. ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 20th, 2006 1:01 PM |
| pj754,if he does show it to his dad then that will just show that he isn't ready to be mature about the situation just yet. But that's okay,just give him the time he wants,at least you know you have tried and that's all you can do. ↑ |
| Name: pj754 | Date: Oct 20th, 2006 3:35 PM |
| Lizzi....Your right again! Yesterday, I spoke with the counselor about my son's last session. This did not go well. The man does not want any part of the case because he recognizes that we do have alot of family issues. His biggest fear is having to testify in court. Plus, he doesn't know exactly how to handle the case. Once again, I strongly emphasized that custody is not the issue, getting my son the help he needs so he is able to function in any family environment and is able to handle his feelings and anger towards his family members or friends. The counselor said no matter what, I'm not going to change my son's mind on who he wants to live with. I don't want to change his mind, I want him to accept the situation and get on with living. Not to let such issues affect his well being. Basically, I was talking to a brick wall. He's telling me that I should give my 13 year old what he wants to make him happy. Wow!!! Too bad, we didn't have those kinds of options when we were younger. Clearly, this counselor shouldn't even be in practice because if he can't help my family or even try to help, then how can he expect to help other families? If I had broom, I could have flown to Florida and back after our conversation. So, I'm not giving up and will try someone else. Someone, who has more of a professional background than this dumb sh*@ has. It really bothers me that his father just can't learn to get along. If he wasn't such a vindictive snake putting thorns in my side, we would be able to operate as two cooperative concerned parents for the children. No, he just does things as a personal vendeta to punish me for leaving him. I can deal with him screwing with me but when he's doing this to the kids is a problem. Anyways, the sun is shinning and seems to be a good day. Thanks again for listening. ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 20th, 2006 3:59 PM |
| Hi pj754! I'd ask that couselor if he got his degree from a cereal or cracker jack box?! Sounds like he isn't up to the situation at hand and is just looking for the easiest way out of the problem instead of trying to solve it! You should definitely look elsewhere for sure! Look for someone who's been in practice a long time because they are the ones who can see through people and bring the real issues into focus.And the ones who have been around and are in their practice for the right reasons would never tell you to let your son have what he wants to make him happy! Instead they will get to the bottom of things no matter how long it takes,or who it makes mad and will bring forth the way it really is and do everything they can to help fix the situation into what it should be and not give up or let going to court scare them.It's a large task and it won't be easy to go through but it is what must be done if your son has a chance at healing and becomming the person he should be. How does your son act when he is with you? Does he seem relieved,stressed,happy,sad,angry?Are things okay until it's time for him to return to his dad or what? ↑ |
| Name: pj754 | Date: Oct 21st, 2006 2:39 PM |
| Lizzi---Thanks for the first laugh of the day. I would say more like a crack jack box!! I've have another referral of someone else, who I was told by several people is really good. Hopefully, she will be able to help. As for my son, well, at first, he was quiet and reserved. It took him about two weeks to start talking and engaging in our conversations. Although, when he's around his dad, I have a disease and he won't give me the time of day. My friend noticed the same kind of behavior when he's not around his dad opposed to being around his dad. The odd thing is when my son shoots out his nasty comments, it sounds just like his father talking. This is a definite sign of coaxing. However, when my son intereacts with his siblings, he seems to be ok. Except, he's been arguing with his sister alot lately. The two just don't see eye to eye. I really haven't been to talkative. I'll answer his questions he asks but our conversations are pretty simple. It's really hard for me to just open up and trust him with anything I say. It all goes back to his dad which he learns enough about what's going on inside my home. There's no angry words but the other family members keep quiet when they are around him, too. We don't open up freely around him. My youngest son and daughter will come home from school and jump on my husband's lap and give big hugs. I get them, too. They give hugs and kisses good nite. They will sit with us to talk about their day, they do they homework without being told, they seem to function normally. It there's a problem they talk with us about it otherwise, they seem to be very content. However, my oldest son doesn't do any of this. He keeps his distance and so do we. I've tried to laugh, joke, tease, tickle, give him big hugs and kisses, etc.... but he just doesn't seem to receptive. Just yesterday, he came home and told us he got in trouble while riding the bus to his dad's house a couple of weeks ago. At least, he came in and told us. Plus, he actually told the truth about the incident. That was very responsible on his part which we praised him for it. I felt the school handled his punishment appropriately that I didn't feel the need to punish him at home, too. I did give him a talk about not repeating the incident. I'm hoping he listened. Yet, when I discussed the incident with his father, who alreayd isn't very happy with the school principal, said he's too concerned either way. So, just because my ex is angry with the principal tells me that he isn't going to be able to handle anything that the children happen to do wrong at school. He's going to shoot down anything the principal suggests. Responsible parenting, huh?? Now, the kids have to suffer because he can't put aside his opinions for their sakes. I might add that my ex is angry with principle because my ex stuck his nose where it didn't belong. He was getting to involved in other students academics and the principal received complaints from other parents about it. My ex stood in my driveway for 25 minutes trying to explain his side of the story. I really didn't care what he thought or said because I know exactly how he thinks and that doesn't say too much. So, he's trying to teach all of the children his way of thinking and it's just plain wrong. Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my thinking is perfect but at least I know how to be diplomatic and certainly don't discuss other peoples business with other people. So, when it comes to my son, I'm trying to get him to see how happy the rest of us in the family are but for now, he just doesn't want any part of it. He seems to be content while he is here but he can't wait until his father gets here for visitation. He's usually the first one out the door. This doesn't bother me because I do think he should care about his father. But, I just want him to be able to make good conscious decisions on his own. Be able to sipher through the right and wrong. Of course, I remember when I was a kid and made decisions without thinking of the consequences. It's when I made a mistake, I realized I jumped the gun. But, you would think after making so many mistakes, you would learn to analyze things before you did them. This is what my son lacks. He analyzes things that are no so important. Anyways, I have a question----would you email me, I have something rather important to discuss with you? I would greatly appreciate it. ↑ |
| Name: Lizzi | Date: Oct 22nd, 2006 7:58 PM |
| hey pj754! I just e-mailed you at your request if it went through o.k.,hope to hear back from you soon! I included my e-mail address. ↑ |
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