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Name: mother2five
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What do you guys think about the kids being taken from that ranch in Texas? What are your opinions on the polygamy and FDLS way of living? Do you think Warren jess should be convicted?
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Name: mother2five | Date: Apr 9th, 2008 8:33 PM
is it warren jess or jessop? 

Name: 04nidak | Date: Apr 9th, 2008 8:41 PM
It's Warren Jeffs and he is already serving 10 years to life and I personally think he needs life. It's sick for grown men to marry, force sex upon and impregnate, not to mention beat these young girls. They have many many wives and more children then I'm sure they can keep track of. It's not a healthy environment in my opinion and I hope to god that something gets done to stop this kind of behavior from happening. It took a lot of courage for that young girl to call for help after being beaten, she should be so proud of herself for making that call. 

Name: mother2five | Date: Apr 9th, 2008 8:42 PM
oh hahah i was just gonna post it's jeffs 

Name: mother2five | Date: Apr 9th, 2008 8:43 PM
I know he was convicted i guess what i meant was do you think he deserves it 

Name: 04nidak | Date: Apr 9th, 2008 8:51 PM
I absolutely think he deserves it, I hope he serves the maximum time which is life and doesn't get out after 10 years. 

Name: mother2five | Date: Apr 9th, 2008 10:21 PM
I am honored to be married to a remarkably self-made woman. She was raised in perhaps the most indoctrinating and limiting of environments of modern America – the Fundamentalist Later Day Saints; the polygamous offshoot from Mormonism. She escaped as a teenager and spent twenty years deprogramming herself and learning to live successfully in the real world.

The former “Prophet” of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), Warren Jeffs, is her uncle. He is currently serving “five years to life” in prison after being convicted for his role in a forced marriage and rape. My wife, fearing a fate like that of Elissa Wall (the girl that Jeffs forced to marry at 14 and who was subsequently raped by her husband/first cousin), escaped from the cult as a teenager and later helped her mother to escape and to literally kidnap her younger siblings.

FLDS members practice Polygyny today (multiple wives) and preach that a man can “gain the celestial kingdom” only by having a minimum of three wives – and that women can do so only by being “sealed” (church married) to a man who is going. http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f/f39ac.html.

The FLDS broke away from mainstream Mormonism (LDS) after the main Mormon church disavowed polygamy (after a convenient “revelation from god”) just in time to meet a condition for gaining statehood for Utah. FLDS members were excommunicated by the LDS.

Polygamy (multiple mates) / Polygyny (multiple wives specifically) is only a part of cult beliefs and practices. The church rules in all matters and owns most property. Men are “given” wives by church elders in accordance to their standing with the church. Powerful older men often have scores of wives. My wife’s grandfather (Warren’s father Rulon Jeffs) had something like 75 wives and untold numbers of children when he died as an old man – some of his wives were quite young).

Women are property of their fathers until marriage, then property of their husbands thereafter (but ultimately property of church elders). Young girls raised in the cult are indoctrinated to be totally subservient to males and to do exactly as they are told. Their education is preferably limited to church schools teaching religious dogma and making no effort toward true education. Women must be covered from neck to ankles and wrists with “proper” blouses and skirts (even when swimming). They have absolutely no choice in who they marry. Girls / women are “assigned” to a husband (who can be totally repulsive to them). Courtship is not involved. The two may have never met and they may be totally different in disposition and age. No matter. The church rules.

This is NOT a made up condemnation of the FLDS even though it sounds ridiculous that any such thing could happen in the United States in modern times. Any Internet search will yield abundant information and verification. For a quick overview see http://www.religioustolerance.org/flds.htm

My wife knows the difficulty of overcoming cult teachings through deprogramming, and she knows what is required to learn about the real world after being sequestered throughout childhood and taught only church dogma. It took this wonderful, highly intelligent woman twenty years to “become a whole person” and to lear to successfully function within the real world.

She has done an outstanding job of learning to be a strong, confident, well informed woman. Most escapees that we know have not done the hard work necessary and therefore are not strong or independent people. They, males and females alike, tend to be meek, indecisive, confused and beset with low self-image. They typically lack social skills and therefore struggle with personal interactions and with personal relationships. Their decision making ability is usually very poorly developed, so they allow others to make their decisions (often disastrously) – or they make a series of terrible choices on their own without knowing how to make informed decisions.

Alcoholism, drug addiction, prostitution and other forms of self-destructive and escapist behavior are very common among ex-cult members that we have known. Even suicide is not unknown. We do not choose to associate with the “walking wounded” that have not recovered from cultism (including family).

It is all but impossible for those without inside information to understand how thoroughly cult indoctrination limits individual thinking to church dogma and how little the cult people know about the outside world. Many live in the LDS communities of Hildale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona (or similar communities in several states and Canada) and rarely or never venture into the real world.

Those raised in the cult have never known anything except total domination by church elders. They are discouraged from associating with people from “out in the world” as they refer to general society, so they do not learn about individual freedom, legal protections, sources of assistance for those who wish to leave the cult, etc. They attend church schools and are typically forbidden to socialize with “gentiles”.

Of those who do leave the cult, very few do the hard work necessary to overcome their indoctrination and to learn how to function in general society. An outsider cannot comprehend the totality of church domination and the lack of socialization that is inflicted upon members. All decisions are made by the church. Marriages are “arranged” by church elders – courtship is not involved – you marry who you are told to marry – possibly someone you dislike intensely. Men make all decisions for women and children – in accordance with church doctrine.

A man is “given” wives in some relation to his devotion to church elders and to his usefulness to the church. He is also “given” a house – but not the deed to the house. If the man falls out of favor with church elders, his wives and children are “taken from him”, and he is ordered to vacate the house. A high proportion of young men are driven from the cult – in order that “faithful” men can have a minimum of three wives (required to attain the “celestial kingdom” according to church doctrine).
http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalis
t_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saint
s


According to doctrine, a woman can attain the “celestial kingdom” only by being “sealed to” (church married) to a man who is going there. Men reign supreme. Women are nothing but baby machines and property of males – first their father, then their husband – for life – no exceptions. Men are similarly submissive to church elders. And, Warren Jeffs was the ultimate authority.

Utah and Arizona authorities have overlooked the crimes committed against women and children in the polygamous communities (somewhere around 10,000 people belong to the cult) for fear of bad publicity (as has occurred previously). In the last few years, however, enough attention has been drawn to the situation to make it unavoidable.

Warren Jeffs has been convicted and sentenced to five years to life in prison. The husband/cousin involved in the underage marriage faces rape charges. Perhaps this will be enough to break up church domination of the cult members (though many won’t know what to do or how to live).

Internet information is readily available about Warren Jeffs and the FLDS cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
www.polygamy.org/about.shtml
www.exmormon.org
www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19102395

This is intended as a brief overview and sample of a very involved story. I will add information periodically as appropriate, answer questions or engage in discussion.

If anyone has questions about life inside (and after) the cult, please feel free to ask in this thread or in a PM. My wife and I will give as good an answer as we can. However, we do not have information about recent inside developments, particularly those during the upheaval after Warren Jeffs was imprisoned.



What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”? 


Name: nicole76108 | Date: Apr 9th, 2008 10:59 PM
To answer all three of your questions I will do it like this. :) First of all this is just my opinion though you might think its wrong I am entitled to it :)

1. I believe the children should have been taken its unfair for the kids to be robbed of their innocence. They dont even get a choice if they are born inside the "camp" as they call it. They are forced to be married off to men that there father or a higher man chooses. The boys are mostly kicked off the camp at a early age to "fin for themselves" so that they dont get overloaded with males. So the woman/man ratio is still capable of giving each man a minimum of 3 wifes. I'm not 100% sure on that for the one here in Texas but I know that is how it is in Utah because I researched it.

2. My opinion on the whole thing. :)
The easiest way to say is I dont believe that it should be allowed. And I wonder why the states they are operating in havent stepped in sooner. These camps are in 3 states I know of and think there are probably more that we dont know of.
I could go on and on but I dont want to spend all night typing :)

3. Yes, he should have been convicted for each child that he allowed to be married while he was the leader of the camps. He should also be trialed for each marriage that he allowed, as well as each multiple wife marriage that he allowed.

This is a very confusing "religion" because you could say well America is for freedom of religion. But America also has laws agains't multiple marriages and child abuse as well. There are a number of factors that make this one of America's most talked about "cult/religions." Thats why I did my senior paper on it. :) 

Name: briseis | Date: Apr 10th, 2008 10:53 AM
To be, this way of living, including pologamy is just odd ... I'd never do it. I'd think anyone who does do it is a little strange ... And I feel for those who are born into it, and therefore forced to do it.

In saying that, to those who WANT to live like that, each to their own. 

Name: Lola | Date: Apr 10th, 2008 11:06 AM
If I knew somebody that was part of that cult I wouldn't just let it happen to them.
I'd do my bet to get them out of their and stop it frm happening to anyone else in there.
I don't think they should just be allowed to carry on just because it is what some people want to do. More often than not, there are people forced into it. Which isn't fair.
Any if America can have laws prohibiting people from doing certain tins then I think this should certainly be one. 

Name: nicole76108 | Date: Apr 10th, 2008 11:27 PM
I saw today on the news that they have 433ish children in Child Protective Custody and among those 140ish woman decided to go as well. Those woman are staying on there own free will so maybe there ready to get out and experience life as you and I do.
The entire thing is extremely sad. I saw a video of a police officer talking about a bed inside the Temple on the compound that had girl/womans hair on it along with blood. They said that there were 14 woman in custody that were in need of emergency attention they didnt go into detail because of privacy laws Im guessing but they said there were several children included in the 14. Sad Sad Sad!!! Just saw that and thought I might post it since there was a discussion about it. 

Name: mother2five | Date: Apr 11th, 2008 12:56 PM
Nicole I think the reason the woman went along are for 3 dif reasons......#1 some wanted out....#2 some wanted to protect their children....#3 some wanted to be eyes and ears for the cult and try to keep the children quiet.

Also yes so many of the ppl were abused mentally as well as physically, and need med. attn.

Did you hear about the 16 yr old girl whos giving birth to 4 children??????? 

Name: nicole76108 | Date: Apr 11th, 2008 4:34 PM
Yes I heard about her to. Its all so sad. And I agree 100% with you on your 3 reason why the woman went. 

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