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Name: Gypsy
[ Original Post ]
The basic necessities of a child's education
include BOTH academics (i.e. reading, writing and
arithmetic) AND social development. Adequate social
development can occur ONLY if a child is allowed to interact
on an everyday basis with people outside of home,
including children of his/her age
group.

Homeschooling may provide the academics of education (i.e.
reading, writing and arithmetic), but it fails to address
the child's social development. In other words,
homeschooling DEPRIVES the child of a very NECESSARY part of
his/her education. Parents who homeschool their children
are doing them a SERIOUS DISSERVICE!
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Name: mmom | Date: Jul 25th, 2005 9:49 PM
Parents play a very important role in the education and socialization of children. Moreover, sociological evidence suggests that schools cause delinquency. There is however no evidence to suggest that all types of socialization is beneficial to children. Just as children can learn "good" things from other kids their age, they can also learn "bad" or unwanted behavior. In addition, formal schools are not the only environment where socialization can take place. Children can spend time with others at parks, in clubs, churches, ect. In my opinion, any parent who takes such an active role in his/her child's education is not doing them a disservice. Perhaps, those who send their children off to schools and then expect the schools carry the burden of educating and socializing them are the problem. We need to encourage parents to take responsibility for their chilren whether in formal schools or homeschooling. In the end, parents need to do what they think is best for their children. 

Name: Gypsy | Date: Aug 4th, 2005 11:22 PM
Children who were home schooled are more likely to avoid social situations, and are over all a sad unhappy group by age 27.
I have had run in with home schooling my whole life and no one has ever been better off for it. A Grandmother I know had the great idea to home school and now she lives with the shame of her chioces. Her oldest son in prison for Rape, Kiddnapping Murder, and Stalking. Her oldest Daughter is a bi-polar mess, her next daughter is a recluse who will not even go food shopping with out two other adults to help her. Her next son is in a Mental Hospital. Her Youngest Daughter married a 42 year old man just after her 17th birthday and lives in an abusive home.
Home schooling runis peoples lives Chilren need to at least have a chance to live in the world they were born into!
Anouther family I know thought they would homeschool and now the state of Iowa has there children in custody for Abuse because they did everything the homeschool web site said.
Parent who homeschool are just hurting there own children and all of the people who will be inthere childrens lives in the future!
Did you know homeschooled children are the most likly to drop out of College and run home to Mommy? Check it out for your self!
Schools are not the cuse of delinquency, not having a structure is the accepted cause of delinquicy.
Any parent who restricts any child from the school experience had done a terrible disservice with out question!
In doing what is best for your children please remember they have to live in the real world they are not moving back into your womb! 

Name: Leann | Date: Sep 7th, 2005 4:37 AM
First of all, everybody is entitled to their own opinions, I however happen to disagree with yours. I am homeschooling my two little girls, 8 and 4. They are outgoing, and very polite. They make friends everywhere we go. The difference here is they don't have a problem making friends with people who are different from them. They aren't "programmed" to only be friends with a certain group. They don't have problems socially, they can communicate with children as well as adults and they are good at it. My children are happy being homeschooled. IF parents make an effort to get their children out and about the children are not deprived of anything. Social development doesn't only mean that a child be able to talk to strangers. Family members also communicate, which is SOCIALIZATION! To repeat something I read once, since when are schools there for socialization??? Did you never hear a teacher tell someone to be quiet that we aren't here for socialization???
Thank you for addressing your concerns, but we don't push homeschooling on parents who choose to send their children out to be schooled, please don't try and push public schools (or institutions) on ours! 

Name: Michele | Date: Sep 7th, 2005 6:15 PM
I tend to agree somewhat. My mom homeschooled my brother who was socially maladaptive anyway. He got in trouble in school for being socially inappropriate and so instead of getting help to help him adjust, she just took him out!! I also know of many home schooled well-adjusted children with loads of friends!! I send my son to a parochial school so as not to have to be afraid of the inner city school, but for some that's not an option. I think it depends on the situation (ie. not helping someone who is withdrawn become even more isolated!) and it's also up to the parents to provide other means of socialization (little league, youth group etc). 

Name: Carter | Date: Sep 10th, 2005 2:04 AM
Gee, I think you are right!! I've never known anyone who attended regular school who was a beaten, raped, sodomized, or had to seek professional help as an adult. What a ridiculous opinion. 

Name: olivia price | Date: Oct 17th, 2005 9:23 PM
hi 


Name: Angie | Date: Nov 18th, 2005 1:13 AM
Gypsy says she has "had run-in with homeschooling her whole life." Translated, that means she doesn't personally know anything about the homeschooling movement. Gypsy also said, "Children who were homeschooled are more likely to avoid social situations, and are overall a sad unhappy group by age 27." Please, Gypsy, post your source for this blanket assumption you have made. I'd love to know the parameters of this "research" you so eloquently spew. My children are certainly nothing like what you describe. Below is part of a response I posted to the socialization thread of homeschooling:

I am a long-time homeschooling mom. Socialization questions are inevitable to anyone thinking about homeschooling & most homeschooling families roll their eyes when they have to answer yet another "S" question--even my kids! It really gets old.

I think the word most people mean when they ask about this is "socializing" as opposed to "socialization." Socialization is actually defined as the process by which the norms and standards of our society are passed from one generation to the next. I've never really thought that a complete stranger's six-year old child would be a good source of information on the correct standards of behavior in our family and in society as a whole. So for us, the socialization of our children will be done by us, their grandparents or another adult who may be caring for them from time to time. As for socializing, I remember from my school days that it was something you weren't supposed to be doing during class. My kids have done a lot more socializing while being homeschooled than most kids can do within the confines of a school building. And the socializing that's done at school (public or private) is mostly the type I'd rather my kids not participate in. My kids have the whole world to explore in real life and aren't limited to a video, textbook, lecture or the occasional field trip. They are involved in activities that regular public/private school kids just don't have time for, and in our area, there's even a homeschool Prom.

As for kids learning to interact with others their age--that's easy. They have each other! They already know how to interact with other kids. :O) The cool thing about homeschooling though is that your children will be able to relate to people of all ages--NOT just ones their own ages. How many teenagers do you see today who are able to look you in the eye and actually have a conversation? Not many who are with their peers all day long! But talk to a teen who has been homeschooled and he will look you in the eye and be able to speak to you with maturity. This is just my experience with homeschooling, which it sounds like most who have responded to you don't have. 

Name: jessica | Date: Nov 25th, 2005 12:46 AM
hi 

Name: Gypsy | Date: Nov 26th, 2005 3:11 AM
If I need you to speak for me I'll ask you to. Nothing you said is on the mark or even sounds sain.
How long have you been in therapy?
Did you dance with your kids at that so called Prom too?
Will you be speaking for me often or was this a one time soap box thing for you? I am still totaly convinced that homeschooling is abusive and should be stopped at every level. 

Name: Cameran | Date: Nov 26th, 2005 6:49 AM
Gypsy what you wrote is so stupid... obviously you were a public schooled kid haha! because how many kids have you homeschooled? oh i forgot you just "know" kids who were homeschooled well your right I know kids who go to public school who do drugs and all that crap and get drunk... All public schools are like that and all the kids are like that in public school too.... geeze thats how you act about homeschool.. why do you come on here and harrass us about our kids aren't social, blah blah blah waaa waaa, but it's obvious you know everything about homeschool... and socializing with kids so your right NOT! Im not gonna be nice to you because all you seem to do is argue and whine about things that you clearly know NOTHING about...it's stupid that you have to come here and have your way... why do you think over half the kids on the west coast want to be homeschooled? because public sucks and teachers don't care anymore... it depends on the kid so whatever you want to think 

Name: Gypsy | Date: Nov 27th, 2005 5:00 AM
Cameran, were you trying to impress someone or just working from liberal talking points?
The only place blah blah blah was cool was on TV!
I'm sure your comment about not being nice was ment to hurt my feelings, but it did not work.
Go email Hilary Clinton and see what your going to be saying next Liberals are so leadable. That is whay they homeschool their children so that they can control them.
The anger and livid tone I get for speaking the truth here shows that to be a fact!
In CA just this year alone there were 124 children emancipated out of homeschooling prisons so that they could attend school and live a normal life.
Next month in MO a couple with 7 kids will stand trial for child endangerment directly related to abuse in a homeschooling house.
Just because you get mad it does not make what I think feel belive and know in my heart to be the truth about homeschooling wrong.
Have fun get mad, talk to me about not being nice, and I'll go right on working to end this terrible flaw in the law that leaves so many children without a voice and trapped in homeschooling nightmares.
Look at Ruby Ridge and Waco Homeschooling is the clut option. 

Name: Judith | Date: Nov 27th, 2005 6:36 AM
Gypsy you are so wrong i'm in public school and i've been beaten up and have had so many problems I wish I was blessed enough to go to homeschool I hate public school and this isnt just the first public school this has happened at...did you hear about the columbine shooting??? did you hear about the shooting in Tennessee at a public school?? did you hear about the percentage of drug use and underage drinking at highschool.. think what you want but i bet your kids (if you have any) are drinking or doing drugs or did when they were in highschool...no matter how good you think they are.. it's the truth. Im assuming you also heard about the dramatic need for counseling and therapy for the public school kids who've wittnessed all this... School is not the only place to get social... what about Churches.. or sports? or field trips which most homeschools offer or study groups.. you clearly don't know anything and you can't believe everything you read..and I really honestly don't think that anything you or anyone else does when they use your argument is going to do away with homeschool because homeschooling is so much better than public school... I know kids in homeschool too they're far better off than the public schooled kids...and they're all social they have no problems, they're smart... and Gypsy did that brain inside your thick headed skull ever consider the children who are homeschooled who are ill and can't be at school? I'm guessing not.. i'm a volunteer at St Jude and most of those kids lying in those hospital beds are homeschooled... did they ask to be? no.. but they don't really have a choice. So if you want to deprive the i'll children and the kids that want to be clean and make "nice" friends instead of the stuck up druggies and drunks then you have a serious problem besides what's it to you anyway?? You don't homeschool kids?? Why don't you keep your nose out of other peoples business..I know your aware of.. by the way My cousin is homeschooled and her older brother was not her older brother is too embarrassed to admit he likes girls and his anti social while my cousin who was homeschooled has a zillion friends and is known all over town.. why? because she got involved with different things.. public school is such a joke now a days...sorry you have to be a know it all... it's funny that this is only the public school parents who do this! Oh and Gypsy about that "abuse" in a homeschooling house sooooooooooooooooooo what thats one to 600 million public schools..... you're probobaly the type to go out there and start saying that its the sharks fault for attacking a surfer my gosh... get over it.. its clearly none of your business. 

Name: John | Date: Nov 27th, 2005 6:54 AM
Judith i'm sorry you have to go through that.. maybe talk to your parents about a charter school?
I am a teacher at a charter school, was a math teacher and english teacher at a highschool and I think that homeschooling is a great way to go, again it depends on the child. I've seen very anti social public schooled kids and very social homeschooled kids and Judith you're right about the problems you mentioned that happen in public schools, it's a very big problem in our world today and there has to be something done about it but it's life and times have changed.

Schools top priority should be to teach a child. Home school students perform much higher in all levels.

http://www.uhea.org/stats.html

You can see the numbers are based on the department of education.

The main arguement you hear from the public school side is that your child will not be socialized. I think this is a classic example of parents who are unwilling to raise their own children and feel it is someone else's responsibility to teach their children. Sexual education is a prime example.

Data speaks for itself, children learn better 1 on 1 versus 20-30 on 1 

Name: Andria | Date: Nov 27th, 2005 7:14 AM
Gypsy.... read this.. don't be thick headed.
http://familyeducation.com/art
icle/0,1120,58-17910,00.html
AND
Myth
1: They won't learn the needed social skills if I teach at home.

Fact: To the contrary, most homeschooled children learn healthy social skills from parents and Christian friends, not from peers with contrary values. Studies have shown that homeschooled children surpass their peers in public schools "in adaptability, cohesion, social adjustment, maturity and leadership; and lower levels in aggressive behavior, loudness and competitiveness. Homeschooled children tend to go on to occupations which are more entrepreneurial and professional. They tend to be more independently minded [and] more family oriented." 

Name: Kate | Date: Nov 27th, 2005 5:15 PM
Gypsy just so you know homeschooled kids are more social than public schooled kids... I was public schooled in Elementary... and switched out after the first semester of Jr High. It's not very fun to have to go to school crying.. because you hate it that much. I have way more friends than I ever did in public school.. people are just nicer.. you for example is a prooven fact of how annoying public school people are... They claim "we're anti social" and all we do is homework... Whatever... I can go hang out with all my homeschool friends during the day while everyone else is at school, we can help eachother with work which you can't do at public school because your not allowed to talk in class, I go to youth group, I do community services, I TA a class at a living history museum, I'm with kids MY age too, I'm sorry Judith that you have to suffer through public school, but homeschooled kids are not deprived... most of my friends at public school hate it.. they're dealing with, drugs, drinking, Cheerleaders, jocks and just down right rude people and they're tired of it. Gypsy why can't you just admit you're wrong about homeschool because your never going to be able to put a stop to it, it's already been prooven that Homeschooled kids are not deprived anymore.. maybe they were a long time ago but they're not now. 

Name: Gypsy to Angie | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 4:40 AM
That Isabel Shaw seems totaly WRONG to me.
I wonder how many times childrens and family services have been to her house?
Lemmings follow what sounds nice. 

Name: Carl | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 4:58 AM
Gypsy why can't you just admit you're wrong and swallow your pride? There have been homeschooled kids coming on here personally and saying how many friends they have and all that... but whatever...im in public school...I think homeschool seems awesome besides why is it your business about homeschool?? There are far more problems in the world than you working to get rid of something where most of the kids are smarter than you and probobaly have more friends than you because I havnt seen that you've made any friends here posting facts that are completely false... public school is the prison.. Im sorry gypsy that you don't want to teach your kids anything about the real world and that you want the school and their so called friends to do it for you. So i'd quit sticking your nose into something you know nothing about... why don't you go do some plumbing and electrical or maybe you should go teach a class at highschool since you clearly know everything 

Name: Gypsy to John | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:04 AM
The link you posted just proves how homeschooling parents strain for numbers and hide the children from the world even more.
Look at the small minded anger posted by these "well meaning parents" They get mad moody and angry. The children trapped in this learning rage end up in terrible stress. For [email protected]'s sake even Omish children have a chance to go out and see the world homeschooled children live with stress high expectations and the short fuses of "Teaching Parents" all that one on one time just leads to one on one therapy once a week for the rest of thier lives.
Children should have a childhood not a work camp called homeschooling. Homeschooled children need a voice, and a legal way to end the abuse and the terror they live day in and day out.
There are GOOD reasons for teaching children in a school. This holy enough to know better crap homeschoolers dig up makes me want to puke. 

Name: Charles | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:05 AM
Gypsy i'm a lawyer working on a case similar to this I was reasearching homeschool because public school wishes to get rid of homeschool so kids aren't deprived of a social enviroment but it seems that the public school side of this is losing because they're clearly wrong and that homeschool kids are given as much opportunity to socialize as a public school child would, taking that opportunity is up to them. Homeschool is not easy, and it takes effort from the parent as well but it doesn't deprive kids of socialization the government has even acknologed this I ask you please not to waste your time. I think that kids should go to public school but if they do better and are happier in homeschool than thats great.. but what you said Gypsy was a false accusation probobaly made up by teachers who don't get money for homeschooled kids. 

Name: Gypsy to Carl | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:07 AM
I have no need to admit that I am wrong I am very right about the thousands of homeschooled children with now voice and the evil of homeschooling.
I never claimed to know everything, but I do now the terror of this homeschooling prision American chilren are born to suffer in MUST STOP!
By the way was that your try at sarcasm? Not Funny. 

Name: Gypsy to Charles | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:10 AM
Do not let your self be blindsided by the "Facts" you have found on the surface.
I beg you check with Menatl Health and childrens services offices in all 50 states there is more to find about how wrong homeschooling is just keep looking. You would not be the first Lawyer made a fool of pressing a caswe without all of the facts and with out talking to children who lived in terror in homeschool houses. Keep looking. 

Name: Charles | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:12 AM
Gypsy, these people are only angry because you're shooting out false accusations telling them their children are anti social what parent doesnt get over protective of their child especially when someone is saying something about them that isn't true! Homeschooled kids have better relationships with their family I've seen it before... kids don't do work like you think Gypsy if a child wanted to they could sit down and finish their work for a week in one day... Please like that's a lot of work.. You've never homeschooled anyone, you don't know what homeschooling is like, I've seen more public schooled kids in therapy and in a court room than ive seen homeschooled kids in therapy and a court in a lifetime. Public school can be very damaging to a child.. more damaging that homeschool where the child is most likely raised in church and is a good person does well and has many friends. 

Name: Charles | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:15 AM
also what you seem to only see is the "bad" in homeschool which doesnt even exist... why is it that public school wants children to stop homeschooling so bad and homeschools just want public schools to leave them alone? Public school is all about fighting and arguing if it wasn't you wouldnt be here arguing about something you dont understand. 

Name: Gypsy to Charles | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:31 AM
Your speaking untruths. You donot klnow me or what I have or have not done.
The BAD in homeschooling is there and it is terrible to the voiceless children that have no way out until it is to late.
If just one homeschooling parent see their child asleep and wonders about the abuses then I amdoing good on this message board.
Silence about homeschooling is damaging to a children all over this country EVERYDAY! 

Name: Charles | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:43 AM
Where are you getting this information gypsy? public schools are the violent ones where have you been?? Do you know how many kids I see in court who bring knives and guns and crap to school.. a kid at a school down here beat down a younger boy with a baseball bat... Have you heard this happening in homeschool no... because they're good smart kids. who aren't deprived of anything. You're also what people like to call a hypocrite your the one speaking the untruths about all this I have done all the research where in the world have you seen anything about children needing therapy the only reason a previous homeschooled child would need therapy is if they came from public school because they were doing bad things a military would be more proper. I'm not going to sit here with you and aruge Did you read anything judith said or kate said...if you want to do a way with homeschool then I suggest you go elsewhere because whatever you wrote above where the hell did you get that it sounds completely made up and won't hold a case in a court of law so i suggest do some more research before you go on saying this 

Name: Gypsy | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 5:56 AM
Thank You for proving my point. If bad or questionable things happen in Public, Private, or Charter Schools they see the light of day as fast as the press can make it happen and the terrible abouse children suffer in homeschooling never see the light of day. The sad terrible abuses go on in silence and the children have no voice.
Are you questioning my freedom of speach? The courts are on my side with that one buddy!
Call me a hypocrite, call me what ever name you like because homeschooled children get called much worse everyday and noe one care.
I saw the posts you talked about and your watery THREAT twards me to and I will not be silent here or anywhwere. I do not allow myself to be bullied never have never will.
Step outside of your box and go into any runaway shelter in any major city in this country, as I have, and you will met at least one girl who was Daddy's little woman and the sexual abuse drove her crazy until she ran away. You will also meet boys who belive that love is conditional and that no one can be trusted.
Contact anger management groups and see how many of them have Court Ordered homeschooling parents in them walking the line between keeping and loosing their children.
If a large case ever gets to court it WILL stand as fact the truth can not be sued away. 

Name: Anna | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 6:11 AM
Gypsy im homeschooled... nothing you've said applies to me... sorry you're wrong... also you told charles that you wont be bullied so why are you bullying homeschooled kids?? and homeschool kids do see the light of day more than public school kids stuck in the same classroom everyday with the same teacher and the same boring kids.. its different for homeschool. Why are you posting false facts trying to hurt people? Im a very social person and have more friends than the average public schooled kid ... Im sorry you've been missinformed about us homeschoolers... I go out every day by the way... to different meetings and out with friends.. why are you arguing with people who are experienced in homeschool when all you do is read about it? Can't you just please leave us alone?? Can't you handle the fact that we're smarter than the average kid? and more social.. My dad's a therapist by the way he sees way more public schooled kids... first you say that homeschooled kids need therapy because they do all this stuff now you're saying that homeschooled kids never see the light of day??? and I don't get it I thought you were against charter schools because they are a homeschool you know 

Name: Gypsy | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 6:32 AM
Oh Anna you poor dear your reading so much emotion in to a adult policy issue. You might not be as smart as you think you are.
I spoke the truth I will not be bullied and I am not bulling anyone else. I am working to give a voice to homeschooled children who live in terror and have no way to speak out. It is called advocating (look it up child) and it is advocates like me who take the front lines against ZELOTS who dop wrong for their own terrible reasons.
Sad to say I am not suprised you can not follow our conversation sweety you never had the benifit of learning how to follow a growing heated converstation, because you were protected from such interactions for your own good. Only now it is doing you no good is it?
"Can't you handle the fact that we're smarter than the average kid?" says Anna.
I can handle lots of facts, but I can not handle minor children and babies in some cases being trapped in homeschools and hurt with no way out.
Your Dad's one office might not know of the need for therapy for homeschooled children after all the once who come out with their lives have so much trouble finding help to learn their way around in the real world. 

Name: Anna | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 6:44 AM
Thats rude what you're saying to me you dont even know me for you information im 17, I have 5 scholarships to Cal Poly in California...I was homeschooled because public school teachers are gay and don't teach...you dont know any homeschooled kids you just go buy what media prints, Im sure you read the inquisitor too. Im glad im not in public school, Im not even homeschooled its a charter school technically but its still homeschool Im not sheltered from anything. I have a million friends...By the way I believe Charles asked you where you got your information above because it's really dumb... public school kids need way more therapy than homeschooled kids...ANY kid would need therapy if their parent abused them physically or sexually ...You probobaly don't like religion being pushed on you so why are you pushing this on us? we're not going to change our beliefs.. 

Name: Gypsy | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 6:55 AM
Well 17 year olds know so much of the world and your last post read like the work of a 12 year old not a brilliant 17 year old.
Your studies will serve you better if you can get in to Hillsdale College CA schools are not worth the dirt they are built on.
Should I be offended that you claim I'm pushing religion? Where did you get that? My religion is not the topic here.
I have listed where my information started use your super homeschooled well "charter school technically but its still homeschool" skills to find what I have sasid OKAY!
At 17 you sound like a liberal Zelot it is truly sad.
You may disagree but what about the kids who are trapped in work camp homes who manage to read this and learn that they are not alone and that there is hope for putting an end to the terror? It is very selfish for you to shut them out and keep them from having a voice.
You might want to look up selfish too babe. 

Name: Anna | Date: Nov 28th, 2005 7:12 AM
Im not going to fight with you, You need to learn to read because I clearly said so why are you pushing "this" on us I didnt say you were pushing religion my gosh girl.
You know nothing about homeschool you're the selfish one here because all you're thinking about are the kids who have it bad what about the kids who are doing well in homeschool you have to ruin it for everyone because some kids can't get social?? There are a lot of social homeschoolers and what about what.. and there you go running of on california colleges something you know nothing about.. Cal Poly is a huge college one of the best in california. Here's a word for you look up "arrogant" all you do is put people down... you need to really get a life honestly you have no respect for anyone you come on here to post your reasons then...and why do you seem to be avoiding the WHERE DID THIS INFO come from?? Yeah right you probobaly just made it all up. Im not the one who sounds like a 12 year old because I didnt start this I claimed that what you said does not apply to all kids who are homeschooled but then you tell me im stupid practically.. this stupid public school against homeschool thing is stupid public school defenders are like genetic polymorphisms who try to stop kids from emigrating from there stupid schools. Why dont you go somewhere where more idiots believe what you say so you won't be arguing with people ma'm? 

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