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Name: mellisa
[ Original Post ]
We have a 14 week old boxer and my husband wants to get his ears clipped a little in the future but i dont want to i think its cruel, he already had his tail clipped but they had done that i guess before he was 5 days old i guess its the law here anyways what do you think? Or if any of you have heard of a certain age you have to get it done by.
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Name: roseywosey | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:01 AM
YES IT IS CRUEL, AND YES IT HURTS THE DOG.. its a horrible thing to put them through ! i despise people that do that.. its not even attractive! 

Name: roseywosey | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:01 AM
if they are born with there ears like that.. KEEP them like that. there is no need to clip ears for any reason. 

Name: Randi | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:03 AM
I had a dane and I went through the same thing. I decided not to have it done. If you are not going to use the dog as a working dog where they could be damaged or injured, or you are not going to be showing your dog in shows where it must meet breed standards , I would personally leave them. Cropping should be done asap to ensure that it heals properly. I think that dogs look weird with their ears standing straight up lol. I think that unless it is used for hunting or some purpose like that, that it causes a lot of unnecessary pain.

Here is some info I found:
Q. Should I have my puppy's ears cropped?

Whether or not to have the ears cropped is a personal decision that must be made by each individual owner. People are attracted to different breeds because of their unique appearances and cropped ears are often an important part of what people think a boxer should look like. Others may not want to risk anesthesia in their new puppy and be perfectly content with the softer look of pendulous ears. Although pendulous ears can have a higher incidence of ear infection, this is easily prevented with good hygiene and a preventive ear cleaning program as a part of routine grooming. The cost of ear cropping can range from around $80 to $200 depending on the locale and the reputation of the surgeon.

Aftercare adds more cost and many trips to the breeder or veterinarian for the taping procedure which "teaches" the ears to stand. Complications can include infection, improper taping (which can cause ear tips or whole ears to lose blood supply and slough or fall off), and failure to stand (caused by improper taping or inadequate taping, assuming the crop is a good one). A commitment must be made to follow the recommended taping procedures to achieve optimum results.

Q. Is ear cropping painful?

Individual dogs, like people have different levels of pain tolerance. In general, boxers are very pain tolerant and most puppies returning home from an ear crop will be eating normally and playing just as they did before surgery within hours of the procedure. Although the ears are decidedly uncomfortable if touched excessively or bumped, this discomfort usually subsides within a few days of surgery. Some veterinarians will offer pain medication for those individuals who seem to have a low pain tolerance. The skill and experience of the surgeon also have an effect on the discomfort level after the procedure.

Q. Is there a risk connected with cropping?

As with any surgical procedure that requires anesthesia, there is always a risk. With the newer anesthetic drugs and monitoring equipment that veterinarians have access to, these procedures are much safer than they were ten years ago. Each veterinarian and each hospital will have its own unique success/failure ratio. If you are concerned about anesthetic risk, it is not unreasonable to inquire about the type of anesthesia and monitoring that will be provided for your pet at the hospital you have selected. Ask the veterinarian who will perform the crop how many puppies he or she has lost as a result of ear cropping. (This is best done before scheduling the surgery appointment so that there is time to make a decision regarding the crop. It is very frustrating for busy surgeons who book surgeries weeks in advance to have half of the scheduled surgeries change their mind and walk out the door after arriving in the clinic on the appointed morning.)

Q. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the different anesthetics used in the cropping surgery?

There are almost as many different anesthetic regimens as there are veterinarians who crop ears. All have advantages and disadvantages and while one regimen is safe in one person's hands, it may not be safe in another's hands. The best anesthesia is usually what the individual veterinarian is most accustomed to using and most comfortable with.

My personal preference in young puppies is Ketamine and Valium for induction of anesthesia. Induction is the initial phase where the animal is given an intravenous drug which rapidly induces anesthesia so that its airway can be secured with an endotracheal tube. This combination wears off very rapidly (in about 5-15 minutes) so after the puppy is intubated it is placed on maintenance gas anesthesia with oxygen supplementation. My gas anesthetic of choice is isoflurane. It is also by far the most expensive gas anesthetic available. The reason that I prefer it is because the animal does not need to metabolize the drug to eliminate it from it's system. It need only breathe a few breaths of room air to exchange the gas in its lungs (and bloodstream) for room air and it wakes up. The less a drug has to be metabolized, the faster it wears off. Less than 1% of isoflurane is metabolized by the animal. This is important in a puppy who has an immature liver that is poorly equipped to handle the breakdown of anesthetic drugs. The disadvantage of using isoflurane (besides cost) is that because it wears off so fast, there is little to no analgesic activity once the puppy is awake.

Other induction agents used include barbiturates such as Thiopental. This is considered a short acting barbiturate. The duration of anesthesia is dose dependent and a typical induction dose would wear off in about 10 to 30 minutes in an adult dog. This drug tends to cause much more grogginess than the ketamine/valium post surgery. The reason for this prolonged recovery is that this drug is redistributed from the blood into fat. Since puppies have very little body fat for the drug to redistribute into, they tend to suffer from a prolonged recovery period when this class of drugs is used. Barbiturates should never be used in a puppy younger than 8 weeks of age. Barbiturates also have a depressing effect on respiration and heart rate.

Other gases used include halothane and methoxyflurane (metofane). Halothane was the gas of choice before isoflurane became available. It must be metabolized by the liver about 35% so it does not wear off as rapidly as isoflurane. Because of this, it provides slightly better pain relief in the immediate post operative period. It depresses the heart more than isoflurane and is more arrhythmogenic (apt to cause arrhythmias of the heart). It is 1/10 the cost of isoflurane. Methoxyflurane was used by many veterinarians for a long time. It is metabolized 52% and seems to last for "days" after the surgery. This is great for pain relief, but not so good for the liver. In short nosed dogs, it can also present a problem with the airway as it takes so long for them to wake up. It is a respiratory depressant.

Ether has not been used by most veterinarians since the 1950s when halothane and methoxyflurane became available. It is very irritating to the upper respiratory tract, but it does not depress the heart or respiration as much as halothane or methoxyflurane. It often causes post operative nausea and vomiting due to its effects on the gastrointestinal tract. It is extremely flammable. It is metabolized 15%.

Q. Is tail docking painful/traumatic?

When the tails are docked at 2 to 5 days of age, the procedure seems to be momentarily painful, that is, the puppy cries during the procedure, but as soon as the pup is placed back with its littermates, it quickly falls asleep and is very willing to nurse if the bitch presents herself to the puppy. This is in contrast to a truly painful puppy who exhibits continuous crying and restlessness and fails to nurse. The older the animal, the larger the tail, and therefore the more traumatic the procedure. If the puppy is more than 10 days old, the procedure should be performed under anesthesia after the time of weaning, preferably at around 8 weeks of age. Many adult animals undergo the tail docking procedure out of necessity when their tail has been traumatized. Although these animals seem to want to lick the tail excessively and must be prevented from chewing out their sutures, the ones I have directly observed have not seemed unusually painful. By this I mean that they were willing to eat and play in their usual manner, but they would sometimes respond to pressure on the tail with a yelp or a sudden glance - a look that says "hey, that's sore!" 

Name: Randi | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:04 AM
Wow that's a lot of info...sorry it didn't seem like that much. It looks like a T Rabbit post haha 

Name: roseywosey | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:05 AM
LOL! 

Name: roseywosey | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:05 AM
im gunna go get a sandwich.. go toilet.. get a drink.. and THEN read that hahaha =P 


Name: roseywosey | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:07 AM
most people here dont do it at the vet with anesthetic.. they do it themself without pain medication ! !!! i think its horrid. 

Name: mellisa | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 3:43 AM
I dont like the idea either, but hubby wants him to look mean so if someone tries to break in or something they will be scared. I hope to change his mind but hes really set on it. Thank you all for your advice. 

Name: roseywosey | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 4:01 AM
lol i dont know how ears can change wether they look mean or not. if hes a big dog.. and barks.. they will be scared regardless of what his ears look like. 

Name: mellisa | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 4:10 AM
LOL i agree. 

Name: lindalu | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 2:34 PM
12 wks is the oldest they can crop their ears, after the 12 wk mark the ears will not stay up. I know many people with Boxers that have had their dogs ears done. The vet will treat it like a surgical procedure. Some dont like the croped ears and feel it is cruel others prefer the look it gives them. For me I like them eather way! 

Name: momof3 | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 4:11 PM
We adopted a Boxer that was 2 years old and the owners had his ears cropped, but I don't know who did it, or where they had it done, but they did it awful. Just awful, it looked like his ears had been cut with scissors!! If you do it, research it well, talk with your vet. Good Luck!!! How is he doing?
(I personally think they look so cute with natural ears) 

Name: mellisa | Date: Apr 14th, 2007 6:30 PM
Hi momof3, ya i think the big floppy ears are sooo cute but hubby thinks cropped ears are better. Hes finally getting the hang of foing outside but i always have to take him out so he wont go in the house he actually was doing really good and then he started doing bad again so im hoping he will start doing good again. 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 15th, 2007 1:50 AM
Name: Randi Date: 04/13/2007 23:04:26
Wow that's a lot of info...sorry it didn't seem like that much. It looks like a T Rabbit post haha

sorry babe you can't be me haha; -) 

Name: Randi | Date: Apr 15th, 2007 5:33 AM
hahaha no one can be you t rabbit. I just think it's hilarious all the info you find. I didn't realize what I posted was going to be that much lol 

Name: Hiddy | Date: Apr 15th, 2007 7:26 AM
Dont do it....its cruel

Here in Australia its against the law....it is PURELY for the look of the breed....there is NO benefit to this practise 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 1:29 AM
yeah giving out info never is easy it turns in to a mile long lecture.lol 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 1:32 AM
mellisa: It is your decision. Every one has their own opinion. We cut and mutilate our selfs all the time. I never clip unless we are showing in the ring. 

Name: briseis | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 10:41 AM
I think it's both unneccessary and cruel. Over in the UK they are making tail docking illegal for most breeds as even the show business has deemed it cruel. Even when it is legal, it's meant to be done when the pup is only a couple of weeks old. It's up to you, but if I were you, I wouldn't even consider it. Ask what the pup would want, and you'll get your answer. :) 

Name: briseis | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 10:43 AM
Yes we humans mutilate ourselves all the time, but we make the decision to do that. We have a choice. The pup does not! in the wild, dogs don't mutilate themselves! 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 12:25 PM
What do you call circumcision on little boys only 2 days old??? Cruelty? It is the exact same procedure with no pain medication. Ever seen what the circumcision looks like after it is done?? Pretty GD painful if you ask me. But ask a little boy if they remember what it felt like. I promise they have no clue as do the pups. This is something we can argue over all day I am not fixed on cropping I think it is up to the parent of the dog and or child ; -))) 

Name: lindalu | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 3:49 PM
T-rabbit I am so glad you mentioned that comparrison. It is the same, and some times even worse! Some vets will put the dog under for the procediar. Where the child is not! 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 6:16 PM
This is one of them things you can not be closed minded to. Cosmetic circumcision is no different. You could bring up health issues for little boys,but dogs also can have yeast infections,ear mites, ear aches.... that cropping could prevent. I have a beagle who has a yeast infection at least once a month. If her ears were cut back it would prevent a moist warm place for it to grow. I have a padded clip that I pin them back with a few times a day to help dry them out. Medication treatments exc... I am not a hypocrite my little boy was circumcised... so why should I be the one to say dogs should be different? I think if their ears are a breed standard fault then yes they should be clipped, but if they fall to standard then leave them. 

Name: lindalu | Date: Apr 16th, 2007 9:01 PM
Again... I agree... agree... agree! That is my exact feeling as well. My schnoodle has floppy ears she has been on meds for her ears almost her whole life. And trust me, I thought about having her ears cropped just to prevent the yeast and infections. 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 17th, 2007 11:56 AM
Them things are horrible aren't they? I wish Lady had no ears some times.lol I love her tho and so do my girls. She was and still is the hardest darn dog to train. Must be the small brain and the ADD I swear that dog has the attention span of a fly. 

Name: momof3 | Date: Apr 17th, 2007 2:30 PM
I never even thought about health problems. My Rott used to get ear infections all the time. I wonder if that would have helped. He would have looked weird with cropped ears. 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 17th, 2007 2:45 PM
That would have looked funny for sure. He would have looked like a Doberman on steroids. lol 

Name: lindalu | Date: Apr 17th, 2007 10:04 PM
Ohhh... yes ...I do hate her ears! I am always on them, keep them clean but be sure they are dry. My Dobemans ears are the best, they are so big and open. Cleaning his ears it a sinch! and they dont need cleaning half as much as the schnoodles. 

Name: Hiddy | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:19 AM
Nope....we have evolved far....

mutilating our pets for the sake of appearance is a bad idea... 

Name: T-rabbit | Date: Apr 22nd, 2007 4:54 AM
Hiddy this is for you. http://youtube.com/watch?v=XmX6RdRNoqk Evolved in to what??? If we still do this to babys with no pain meds what would be the big deal in doing it to dogs with meds??????? 

Name: jessica | Date: Jun 14th, 2007 7:27 PM
i want get my boxers ears clipped what age should they get done? 

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