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Name: M
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Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 6:35 PM
It is just that I believe the decisions our courts make are very important to future generations. I do believe this is the beginning to ending all abortions. Reversing Roe vs. Wade. Which is not a bad thing--but it can be for some families. I would not want my daughter to ever be forced to go through with a pregnancy knowing that she would die. I would not want to see my daughter someday faced with a lifetime of caregiving to a severly deformed child with absolutely no quality of life. I am talking about the most severe of deformities. This might make me wrong in your eyes, but I do believe this issue is much more complicated then just right or wrong. 

Name: Little Miss Tara | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 6:53 PM
First they do give women counselling and lessons in birth control before you have an abortion. It IS very embarrassing. I'll be honest I have had one recently. I believe that there are probably more women out there and on this site that have had them an abortion. More than you would think. I also believe that most abortions are for....... not selfish, but for the mother's best interest.
My son is autistic as you all know. When I became pregnant the doctor told me that the chances of this baby being autistic were very high. I decided that I could not take this chance. I have a hard time giving Joseph all that he needs another autistic child would just be to hard. So I then made one of the hardest decisions of my life. It wasn't convenient and it wasn't a joyful. But I'm thankful that the choice was there. 

Name: Little Miss Tara | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 6:54 PM
Oh and I don't consider myself a "baby killer" or a bad person either. 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:03 PM
I understand. I would not judge you for this. This is what I was trying to say to homemommichelle--this is much more complicated than for it or against it. You did what you thought was best for your family.

Michelle mentioned the joy of saving a child at 23 weeks and watching them go home. That is much different than being with that child for a lifetime and dealing with the handicaps they may have from the medical intervention used to save their life. I do not believe in saving life at all costs. Do you remember Terry Shibo? She layed in a vegetative state for over 10 years while her family fought her husband to keep her connected to life support. 

Name: Dana G | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:03 PM
I understand what the law is saying, but there are loopholes too...I just had a friend deliver a baby last year that weighed 1lb....technically they might have called this aborting, but her little girl lived, they HAD to deliver the baby to save her life and they did...so my question is I guess is it up to each doctor whether or not they think the baby will live? What are they considering an abortion? Most doctors will still deliver a baby and just "hope" it lives to save the mother. 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:05 PM
Also, I have a cousin with an autistic child and I see the demands put on her. She probably would have chosen to do the same in your shoes. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:11 PM
I do not judge anyone. And everyone has to live with their choices. I think the law is wrong that allows this to happens and the doctors that do this. M many too go on to live full quality lives.

Yes, I do remember Terry Schivo...she was alert and shown interacting and tried to say she wanted to live. The husband wanted to starve her to death so he could be with his new girlfriend and the child he had with the other woman. There was no altruistic motives for her well being on his part. Her parents loved her, he wanted to be with his new lady...who had her interest at heart. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:13 PM
Yes, I am not the one who had to live with the children we saved. However I have NEVER had parents come back and say "why did you saddle me with this child"???? they have however came to visit the unit and said "Thank You, look how well he/she is doing"!!!!! 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:13 PM
The autopsy proved she had no brain functioning. He did not want his wife to continue to be a vegetable for another 10 years. This is why it is so important to have a living will. Do you want to lie in bed for years? 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:15 PM
Autopsy results:


Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:18 PM
"The disconnecting of the feeding tube was the latest step in a contentious family saga that began 15 years ago, when Terri Schiavo collapsed from heart failure that resulted in severe brain damage. Lower courts have ruled that she is in a "persistent vegetative state." 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:19 PM
She was incapable of talking and saying she wanted to live. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:19 PM
I am just saying I think he may have had a little ulterior motive. If she truly had no brain function then she could not have been making eye contact and blinking when asked as they showed on TV. I don't think they would post autopsy reports truthfully on the internet. That is a medical privacy issue! Lets see, mom who loves her little girl, and hubby who is already sleeping with another. Who has the interest of the patient at heart???
Yes, I agree. A living will is definately a good thing to have. However this post was about the new abortion ban. Those babies hardly have a chance for a living will huh?? So we are back to who decides quality of life? Who decides who gets to live and who doesn't??? 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:20 PM
M do your research she said "I waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..." she did try to talk. "persistant vegitative state DOES NOT mean NO brain function. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:22 PM
Also from Wikkipedia:

Recovery after long periods of time in a PVS state have been reported on several occasions and are often treated as spectacular events. In fact on March 7, 2007, a woman named Christa Lilly awakened from a vegetative state after 6 years of being in a coma that involved her eyes being open most of the time, tracking moving objects. She spoke to family and a local news group saying she was fine. The hardest part she said was learning how to speak again. Lilly slipped back into the vegetative state after 3 days. Some authorities insist that PVS is an irreversible condition and therefore conclude that these recoveries involve cases in which there was not truly PVS.[citation needed] Some cases of PVS may actually be cases of patients being in an undiagnosed minimally conscious state.[citation needed]

Misdiagnosis of PVS is not uncommon. One study of 40 patients in the United Kingdom reported that 43% of those patients classed as in a PVS were misdiagnosed and another 33% able to recover whilst the study was underway.[4]

Controversy over the true meaning of PVS, for patients, families, and medical ethics, has been raised by a recent experiment using magnetic resonance imaging which revealed that a woman diagnosed with PVS was able to activate predictable portions of her brain in response to the tester's requests that she imagine herself playing tennis or moving from room to room in her house. The brain activity in response to these instructions was indistinguishable from those of healthy patients.[5]

Additional controversy has been caused by the discovery that in many nursing homes and hospitals unheated oxygen is given to non-responsive patients via tracheal intubation. This bypasses the warming of the upper respiratory tract and causes a chilling of aortic blood and chilling of the brain. In a small number of cases, removal of the chilled oxygen has been followed by recovery from the PVS state. Additional research has been recommended to determine if this chilling effect may either delay recovery or even may contribute to brain damage.[6] 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:24 PM
Vegetative State Defined

Doctors have determined that Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state. Bernat explains this is when "you have wakefulness, your eyes are open, but you are unaware. It can appear as if you are aware, but it's a state of unconsciousness." 

Name: lindalu | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:25 PM
Im for abortion, how ever I do think if a woman does not want any more children thay should take the proper precautions to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. I have one child I had her at the age of 17, I knew then that I didnt want more. I then talked to my doctor and had my tubes cut and cotarized. For me... there would.. under.. no circumstances be an oopsi pregnancy! I dont believe in accidents, only carelesness! 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:30 PM
Homemommichelle--Terry had no chance of recovery. The autopsy showed this.
DUNEDIN, Fla. A lawyer for Michael Schiavo (SHY'-voh) says the autopsy results on Schiavo's brain-damaged wife back up what he's been saying for years.

Attorney George Felos (FEE'-lohs) pointed out that the doctors who performed the autopsy concluded that the results were "very consistent" with a persistent vegetative state. He says that confirms what Michael Schiavo had been saying -- that his wife had no hope of recovery.

Felos also pointed to the finding that Terri Schiavo was blind. He says this refutes the claims by the woman's parents that she was able to see them and react to them.

And, Felos says the autopsy confirmed that Terri Schiavo hadn't been physically abused.

He says Michael Schiavo is "pleased" to hear the "hard science."

He also says Schiavo plans to release autopsy photos of his wife's brain -- which doctors say had atrophied to the point that it was just half of normal size. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:32 PM
I repeat, this info was obviously shared by someone who was very very biased and wanted to go about his live with his new lady and the mother of his children, and not be saddled with the "vegatable". 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:33 PM
Once again, this is about someone who could have had a living will, and for her sake I wish she would have. However those unborn babies do not get that option do they? Amen, I too have been snipped!! 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:35 PM
I think I am beginning to understand your position--preserve life at all costs. Medical technology is allowing that to happen more often--but at what cost to the patient's quality of life? This is were we differ I think. Sustaining life because technology allows it would not always be my first choice. Doctors must consider quality of life also. This is from your medical training.

You also have a stronger faith--that was shown to me by your comments on Terri. You held the belief that there was still hope, even after the autopsy showed her brain was half the size it should have been. So what would her life have been like if she did recover with only half a brain? 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:36 PM
Sometimes continuing life is not the humane thing to do. 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:37 PM
Laying in a vegetative state for 15 years is not what I would want for anyone I love. I would have done the same for my husband--out of love. 

Name: bebe9281 | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:40 PM
I hope that my husband has enough respect for my dignity and knows me well enough that he would pull the plug. I would do it for him. 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:41 PM
My aunt recently was faced with this delimia with her husband of many years. He was brain dead after a heart attack and falling from a ladder and hitting his head. He had a living will and it is what he wanted--but she has had a very difficult time coming to terms with his death. Once the hospital saw his living will it was not in anyone else's hands. They had to unplug the machines. Without the living will he would have layed in that bed for a very long time. 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:43 PM
bebe--you and your husband might want to consider a living will. That way you will know you are doing what he wants if it ever happens. I do not think anyone would want to end up like terri did. 

Name: bebe9281 | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:44 PM
I have never been faced with the life or death situation of abortion or of someone in a vegetative state. Hard to really say what you would do. It's got to be gut wrenching. 

Name: bebe9281 | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:44 PM
Oh girl PLEEZZZZ].... Hubby is a lawyer... We are AOTMF (all over the muther fu**er).. HA HA HA 

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:46 PM
My husband knows I would not be able to tell the hospital to unplug the machines. I would be at his side for 20 years. He does not want me to ever be put through that and made sure I won't be by getting that living will. The lawyer said when you sign a living will it is really out of the love you have for your spouse. That you would want them to go on with their life without guilt and remorse. 

Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:46 PM

Name: M | Date: Apr 18th, 2007 7:46 PM
So your husband is a lawyer! Good for you! I bet he has all the bases covered! 

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