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| Name: tweetybird4 | Date: Nov 5th, 2006 1:20 AM |
| Hi Pleasehelp---I'm sorry to hear your ex is trying to cheat your children by willingly deny support for them. This is a hard situation. It's sad that he's doing this. It's for the children yet he's trying to punish you. Have your attorney try to get a hold of your ex's W2's. See if he can request a copy that proves he's making what he's claiming. I'm going through the same thing. Although, my hasn't asked for a reduction yet but he still doesn't want to pay regularly. He does it when ever he feels like it. Also, have you noticed your ex driving new vehicles, done any home improvements, or anything else? If, so take pictures of such items because it will show in court that he's not suffering financially like he says he is. Even if everything is in his wife's name, he still has an obligation to your children. If this happens to go in front of a judge try to get as much prove as you can. I don't know if you can afford this but maybe you can hire a private investigator to tail him and do some digging. I'm sorry I couldn't offer you much advice. It's hard to go through and I completely understand your situation. Just try to stick with it and eventually, your ex will slip up somewhere and then he'll get nailed for it. I wish you well and keep me posted. ↑ |
| Name: pleasehelp | Date: Nov 5th, 2006 5:40 PM |
| Thank you so much tweetybird4. I so appreciate your kind words and ideas. Father provides his 1st page only of his W2's. That could be something they constructed on the internet though. I'm sure however wife does pay him the amount he shows. She probably pays herself the remainder of the profit because she knows her income plays no part in Father's obligation. Really, it doesn't matter how much she shows she pays him because all their money goes into the same household, they just write him this minimal paycheck for the prupose os showing some type of ridiculous income for him to recieve a low support obligation--so sad!! As for his vehicles, brand new Hemi truck. Wife does books for local car dealership full time so they get good deals. Their house is brand new in a upper class subdivision. They definately have the best of the best--material wise anyway. They apparently have or think they have themselves covered at every angle because all assets they have aquired since marriage, they put in her name only.I do have a great attorney and we will appeal and have a hearing in front of a judge. I want to uncover this once and for all or at least know that there is nothing that can ever be done and settle for this until my children are 18. It just seems too easy to put everything in wife's name to hide all income or assets and not have it questioned. Especially since this business was started after they were already married, making it to my knowledge community property, not to mention, they inter-mingle the company assets with their personal joint savings and checking accounts--again, showing they both thrive off entire company revenue--not just $5.65hr., somehow, this should show father is just being treated as an employee for income showing purposes or mabey some relief at tax time for their company filing. It looks as though this will cost some money to unearth everything--and alot of subpoenas to pass out!!! If everthing does turn out to be owned by her legitimately, and he will never have any rights to it should their marriage dissolve someday, how sad for him--he'd have nothing!!! He's probably never thought of that though! Thank you so much again..I hope everything works out for you as well. ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 5th, 2006 5:44 PM |
| Hi pleasehelp! I've been so wrapped up in my own stuff that reading yours is kinda difficult for me. (seeing the side of the mom's who are struggling.) Unfortunatley, I don't have any legal advice to offer. Tried not to deal with the courts much over the years. tweetbird4 sounds like she's been there done that! And, has some amazing advice that sounds pretty good to me! My heart goes out to you and your family. It still perplexes me that children are not put first! Good Luck to you, I hope things work out. ↑ |
| Name: pleasehelp | Date: Nov 5th, 2006 6:22 PM |
| Thank you Lory. I too have sat back and hesitated to bring things to court. I can't sit back anymore and allow him to completely benefit from income he is hiding. Seeing him bold face lie and get away with it is too much. Nothing is perfect and people do this all the time, but he participates so little in their lives to begin with, if there's anyway to unearth this situation, I have to try.For the kids sake, I have to try to do all I can to obtain a fair Order. After all, if we were still together as a family, the kids would enjoy his income increases and livelihood. I don't want to make his life unliveable, I am just hoping for some help. If it turns up nothing and he continues on this way, someday he will reap what he's sown. Someday the kids will realize too and that's the saddest part of all. Thanks again :) ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 5th, 2006 7:10 PM |
| I'm so sorry if how I came across to you about kids first, etc.offended you. That was not my intention. I believe you should absolutely do what is best for yourself, husband, and your children. I truly find itsick & disgusting that your ex is doing what he's doing. That's where we're at now. We're tired of taking it. And...will do whatever it takes at this point! Courts, attorneys, and all! I have always said myself with my husbands ex. Eventually, "what comes around goes around!" And she will have to answer to the children, among others. Yes, how sad for the children! Believe me, I wish we would have stood up to her sooner! Have a great day, and I hope you get the help that is needed. ↑ |
| Name: pleasehelp | Date: Nov 5th, 2006 8:18 PM |
| Hi Lory--Oh, not at all. I am too sorry if it sounded a way it wasn't supposed to. I merely meant to agree that I too have tried to avoid all the court "aggrivation" and expenses. They just push your back up against the wall to where you finally realize this isn't going to stop and you have to do something "legal" about it. I am so appreciative for your thoughts and wishes. Take Care. ↑ |
| Name: tweetybird4 | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 1:17 AM |
| Hi Pleasehelp and Lory---One thing I have learned through all of this is to not mistake weakness for kindness. In the beginning of my mess, I tried to be nice, fair and try to get along. It didn't do me any good. It's all about trying to hurt me just to see how far the knife can go into my back. I'm at the point that I am finally pushing back. It's hard but you have to keep fighting for the children's sakes. I'm hoping when I am done with my ex, he will be eating out of dumpster. I'm serious on this one. What he has done to me and is doing to the children is going to come back around and bite him 10x harder. I will make it my personal promise. Keep your calendar journals written of every single encounter you have because the judge may allow you to use it when you go to court to recall important information. To Pleasehelp---I'm sorry your ex is stooped to this kind of level. Your right, if everything is totally in his wife's name, he is screwing himself. Although, I don't think he would be that dumb. However, if he's living a high status lifestyle, it's going to be very hard from him to prove that he's not doing quite well for himself. Just emphasize to your lawyer, you only want what the law states you are entitle to for the children. I do hope your day will come and you will get what your children deserve. What these idiots don't realize is they are getting off alot cheaper than if the children were permanently living with them. We know it costs much more in taking care of them than what the little support they give. Anyways, I'm here to talk with ya both. If I can offer you any advice, I'll try otherwise I can at least listen to what you have to say. I hope things do get alot better but it will take time. There are alot of days, I'm sure you feel like just giving up. Nope, don't do you because then your giving in to the ex. That's what they want. So, put on your happy faces and pretend your life is wonderful no matter what kinds of crap they throw at ya. Then come inside and sit down in front of this silly screen and scream with your words. I'll hear ya. You both take care and keep me posted. ↑ |
| Name: pleasehelp | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 4:06 PM |
| Thank you tweetybird4. Isn't it ridiculous!!! The courts never for some reason seem to want to bothered with this stuff. Our case has never gone further than the support conferences. I have always jsut accepted what they have put in the order based off of what he "shows" he makes. Ex always has an attorney, but I never have brought one to these things. They tell you it's a waste of money because if they get in there and lie there's nothing you can do about it that day anyway. You have to appeal the recommedation an go to the next step which is in front of a judge or a mediator. I will definately need my atty. for this. I just hope that somehow they are able to disregard these phony $5.50hr. wages and somehow there is a loop hole in proving even though the business was put in her name only, it is in fact both of theirs due to starting it after they were already married. For some reason these loop holes never seem to work out for me. I think it just maddens you more when you've been so nice, understanding and patient and then WHAM--they screw you. I am so fortunate that my husband now has raised these children since they were 3 and provided for them as they were his own. Their father sees them every other weekend only--4 days, 6 nights a month as he moved 2 hours away when he met his new "thing".She was obviously more important. He has lived away now for 7 years. He only has them for the "good times", not partaking in a single parental responsibility--like the rest of them i guess. In my mind I have basically chalked him up to be a "sperm donor" :) The funny thing is, if you ask them, they're the best parent in the world!! How they fancy themselves this way is beyond me. The best part is, the ex and his wife are now expecting twins too-due in 2 weeks. Yet another reason he's trying to hide his money--i'm sure at the wife's orders too. Let's see how they make out. Let's see, if you don't want to support the 2 you already have--let's go have 2 more!!! Thanks for your kind ear!! ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 5:29 PM |
| To pleasehelp I don't understand why their not asking for tax returns. When we went to modify. Our attorney required (3) years of income tax returns. Ofcourse we filed joint, and our entire income was viewed. As well with the ex. Are they filing separate? I don't know, I was thinking maybe if they filed jointly, that the courts would see it in black & white. ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 5:41 PM |
| To add to my last post. I'm sorry, I guess in these types of issues. It's never really black & white! Just trying to think of anything to help out. ↑ |
| Name: pleasehelp | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 6:06 PM |
| Hi Lory. Great point!!! In thinking about it, he has never shown any tax return besides the one he has for just his employee wages which amount to $10,000 yrly income. Surely they must be filing joint unless they do it married filing seperate. I'm sure his atty. has instructed them before hand on how to file and avoid showing proof of the business income. Even when he shows them his pays, they are on "pay detail" 8X10 pieces of paper, because they're not actual stubs, I guess they could be considered fictious pays. As for his tax returns, he hands in only 1 page from it. I think those conference officers don't know what thy're doing half the time anyway. They just punch in the numbers they're provided with and the computer spits out a number. They probably figure, if they don't like it, take it in front of a judge--which I guess is where were going. Seems funny, you need the extra money for the kids to be able to do for them what the father isn't and instead, you are forced to have to spend it on court hearings and atty. fees., so the kids still don't benefit. I'm in Pennsylvania, and today I searched our law and it specifially reads" Under PA law, marriage is an Economic contract and economic partnership. Everything you and your spouse buy or acquire during the marriage is legally owned by the two of you and is marital property. It makes no difference who it is titled to or in whose name you buy or acquire an asset. It does not matter whose money was used to purchase the asset." The only states that are wxceptions to this law are Idaho, California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Lousiana, and Washington State---mabey this will help someone else to know also :) Pertinent to my situation, they used marital money to start up the business with comingled marital funds, but chose to put it in her name only--trying to claim none of it was his--only hers--still, opened business after marriage. Even in the event of a divorce for anyone in this situation, equitable distribution also dictates all assets subject to equal distribution are any/all businesses or professional practices started during the marriage. I"ve tried to do some digging today as you can see :) Whether it does any good remains to be seen:) Nice to talk to you again!! ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 6:52 PM |
| To pleasehelp...It is all so ridiculous! I feel terrible for you and your family. My husband and I have never really tried to deny his child support! We've just always tried to see it in the best interest of the children. Truly. I know it might sound too good to be true. I have the utmost respect for my husband because he does do right! My husband stayed at one job for 15 years, and has only changed jobs once, where he is now employed for 4.5 years. And, continued the support. I guess what I'm saying is we never tried to look for ways not to pay. We have always felt we didn't want to have to look over our shoulders, and answer to the children. I don't know if this sounds bad or not, but we wanted a clean concious! And, to know we did right by everyone. Yes, we are filing for a modification at this time. But, both of his daughters are moved out, and have been for awhile. One's married with 2, and one on the way, the other girl is 19 makes decent money and is moved out too. We felt it was obviously time. Being that his 15 year old son is the only child at home now. We just want what is a fair order also. I know that there are "deadbeat dads " everywhere and it is so sad. I wish his ex could hear about what your ex is doing and realize that she has had it fairly good. We are too on our way to see a judge to fight for what we feel after all these years is fair! I also want to say if we knew then, what we know now. We would have surely fought for custody of those babies. No matter what the cost. My husband didn't want them to be ripped away from their mother. Which has not done them any good. I know that she is their mother and they will love her always. But, I wish they would not have had to live through some of the things they did with her. That they would not have lived through with us. I'm sorry to ramble on. I guess it doesn't help your situation any. I am just happy to know that there are mothers like you, and tweetybird4 out there who put their children first! i wish I could help more. ↑ |
| Name: T-rabbit | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 7:43 PM |
| DRUG RECALL INFORMATION All drugs containing PHENYLPROPANOLAMINE are being recalled. You may want to try calling the 800 number listed on most drug boxes and inquire about a REFUND Please read this CAREFULLY. Also, please pass this on to everyone you know. STOP TAKING anything containing this ingredient. It has been linked to increased hemorrhagic stroke (bleeding in brain) among women ages 18-49 in the three days after starting use of medication. Problems were not found in men, but the FDA recommended that everyone (even children ) seek alternative medicine. The following medications contain Phenylpropanolamine: Acutrim Diet Gum Appetite Suppressant Acutrim Plus Dietary Supplements Acutrim Maximum Strength Appetite Control Alka-Seltzer Plus Children's Cold Medicine Effervescent Alka-Seltzer Plus Cold medicine (cherry or or ange) Alka-Seltzer Plus Cold Medicine Original Alka-Seltze r Plus Co ld & Cough Medicine Effervescent Alka- Seltzer Plus Cold & Flu Medicine Alka-Seltzer Plus Cold & Sinus Effervescent Alka Seltzer Plus Night-Time Cold Medicine BC Allergy Sinus Cold Powder BC Sinus Cold Powder Comtrex Flu Therapy & Fever Relief Day & Night Contac 12-Hour Cold Capsules Contac 12 Hour Caplets Coricidin D Cold, Flu & Sinus Dexatrim Caffeine Free Dexatrim Extended Duration Dexatrim Gelcaps Dexatrim Vitamin C/Caffeine Free Dimetapp Cold & Allergy Chewable Tablets Dimetapp Cold & Cough Liqui-Gels Dimetapp DM Cold & Cough Elixir Dimetapp Elixir Dimetapp 4 Hour Liquid Gels Dimetapp 4 Hour Tablets Dimetapp 12 Hour Extentabs Tablets Naldecon DX Pediatric Drops Permathene Mega-16 Robitussin CF Tavist-D 12 Hour Relief of Sinus & Nasal Congestion Triaminic DM Cough Rel! ief Triaminic Expectorant Chest & Head Triaminic Syrup ! ! Cold & amp;am p; Allergy Triaminic Triaminicol Cold & Cough ..... I just found out and called the 800# on the container for Triaminic and they informed me that they are voluntarily recalling the following medicines because of a certain ingredient that is causing strokes and seizures in children : Orange 3D Cold & Allergy Cherry (Pink) 3D C old & Cough Berry 3 D Cough Relief Yellow 3D Expectorant They are asking you to call them at 800-548-3708 with the lot number on the box so they can send you postage for you to send it back to them, and they will also issue you a refund. If you know of anyone else with small children, PLEASE PASS THIS ON. THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF! To confirm these findings please take time to check the following: http://www. fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/ppa ↑ |
| Name: pleasehelp | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 8:56 PM |
| Kudos Lori!!! we too have kind of been down that road ourselves. My husband has 2 children from his previous marriage. When his wife decided to leave him, she moved the kids to CA. For the 6 years she was gone with them, we paid exorbitant amounts of child support to her and on top of that, we also paid for the airfare roundtrip 3x's a year. The whole time, we never complained about paying the money--it was our obligation and even if not, they are his children and what kind of man wouldn't want to support his children. Of course, we had those many times when we would find out the money was going to herself--nails done--the works. The kids were given nothing extra with the $. Matter of fact, we would get pictures home from school activities they were proud to show us and his daughter would be wearing her pajama bottoms. We never really thought about how she was spending the money as that is not the point of support. Usually, it's just put toward any/all household expenses with the kids, food, clothes, activites, etc. etc., but hten we would find out their utilities were getting shut off, etc--si, to find out how she would get her nails done, etc really upset us because the kids were going without. Still, we always paid, and believe me with what he paid she could have easily afforded a nice mortgage. After 1 long year of batteling her in interstate custody courts, we finally were able to prove her unfit and gained custody of his 2 kids. We don't receive support-we are just happy to have received the kids. Their mother is in no position to pay us and still is raising 2 kids of her own from her last marriage. These are his kids and we actually figure is costs us less to raise them without taking support from her than it did when we were paying support to her and didn't have custody of the kids. I guess that sounds strange that we don't ask her for support but yet i'm so upset that my ex barely pays any. I think what it comes down to with me is my ex is taking no responsibility for his kids, financially or otherwise and is lying to avoid it --he claims to have nothing but really has alot, which just infuriates me. My husband raises them as his own and takes care of them financially and otherwise just as he does his own. My husband's ex truly has nothing. What little she does have now, she enjoys with the kids when they visit. That situation really did work out for the better for the kids sake. I keep trying not to be so upset about this whole situation and count ourselves lucky that God has blessed us to be able to meet all 4 kids needs now--things could be worse. ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 6th, 2006 11:59 PM |
| Wow! You guys have been through alot. And, I'm sorry you are going through more! That is great that you did get custody. Although it doesn't make it easier on the wallet. It sounds like they will have a much better life, love and a future with you and your husband. We did have issues at times with where the $ was being spent. They too came over on weekends at times with no extra clothes, and sandals in the winter! Which we would take them and buy them proper clothing, and shoes. It got to the point that we would have to keep "extra" outfits, shoes at our home. Because when we would send them home with things we would never see them again! The kids had been brainwashed against us. They would never speak of things that went on at home. I'm sure they were told not to. They lied about everything! We would of course try to make sure they were not being abused etc. And, tried not too speak ill of their mom. At least, not in front of them. Anyway, when the oldest M. got pregnant at 15. She started to come over and tell us about the happenings at home. Her mom, and step-dad were treating her badly she said because of her pregnancy. At that time we were the only ones she could turn to. We heard some pretty devastating things. Utilities shut off, phone, etc. Them drinking, and physically fighting. Verbal abuse, mental abuse. We called and reported them, and they told us that as long as their was food in the fridge blah, blah blah! They basically said we had no proof of this. We were new to all of that. We at that time offered all of them to come live in our 2br 1 ba mobile home. (which we still live in) We told them we would get a bigger place. They all refused. They asked us why were we trying to take $ away from their mom. As it turned out M. was kicked out and moved in with the father of her child, and is now married to him. The middle girl was kicked out @ 15 and moved in w/her sister. Now works, lives in her own apt. A. his son is still at home and we do not see or hear from him except on Christmas. Hopefully, things will work out for the best. You would think that the system would work better. Laws need to be changed. Something needs to be done. But, until then all I can do is hope and pray for others out there like us. Take Care Hopefully talk again. ↑ |
| Name: pleasehelp | Date: Nov 7th, 2006 2:01 AM |
| Oh my gosh!!! How sad, and how close to home!!! The same circumstances you mention, less the pregnancies, are almost verbatum what husband's kids went through when with mom. Only, she tried to brainwash but it didn't work. The kids longed to be here and realized how bad their situation was. They love their mom, of course because it's mom, but they truly appreciate what they have here. Visiting is good as long as it's not permanent. Sounds like you have such a loving, warm heart offering all you have and can do for their circumstances. Honestly, very rare to hear anymore--quite the breath of fresh air!! I firmly uphold that ALWAYS (eventually, but nonetheless), they find out who has done right by them and that's what's important, even though it seems so long to take to happen. You will be truly blessed for your every effort and understanding. It is so hard to hear these things from so many people. I'm sure it plays a big part in how things are today--scary for the young ones to grow up in. Too much hate and not enough love. Everyone looking for a way out, doing all the wrong things and blaming others for the outcome. I think we all go through our "hate" times but we are definatley in the end, much better people for the way we ourselves know in our hearts we have handled it!!! We always want so much more for our kids--best case scenario in these bad situations is they don't turn out to be a product of their environment. I believe you are setting a very good example. Take Care. ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 7th, 2006 9:09 PM |
| To pleasehelp & tweetybird4-----HI! I posted this a.m. under "Just keeping y'all posted" You guys are familiar w/my situation. I've "re-grouped" since then. But would still love to hear from ya. Thanks! ↑ |
| Name: billy22 | Date: Nov 8th, 2006 1:07 AM |
| Unfortunately, I too have been goign through the support battle. I will share my story in a new topic, but the only advice I can give you is to stick with the fighting for what you deserve. What comes around goes around and they will eventually get either A)caught! or B)soemthing financially "unfair" will happen to them before they realize the damage they are doing. It's hard to tell your kids that you can't do certain things for them because you can't afford it at that time to only have them then go to their Dad's and come home saying that they got a bunch of new expensive things! But don't worry, hang in there. It's only a matter of time. Try not to stress too much about it. ↑ |
| Name: Lory | Date: Nov 8th, 2006 4:36 AM |
| To billy22!! U hv no idea wht i go thru! dnt thnk u do. oh yeah thgs wel hapn. soner or l8ter! hve a nce lfe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i dbtt it! sn 2 b lvn a LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whs ths?????????? ↑ |
| Name: billy22 | Date: Nov 8th, 2006 5:34 PM |
| I wasn't trying to offend anyone here, I was simply sharing my opinion and thougths about pleasehelp's tpoic. Wasn't meaning for any of my imput to be aimed at Lory.....I don't always read the comments that everyone puts, I simply just answer the original topic. Again I apologize for offending anyone, I am new here and need some imput myself and would like to share some of my own experiences with people. But some how I keep offending the same person over and over....why is that? ↑ |
