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Name: E
[ Original Post ]
You know how it would be great if men don't irritate us sometimes? Nagging doesn't get the desired results, and makes us feel bad.

There is an article in which a woman researcher decided to try animal training methods on her husband. "The central lesson I learned from exotic animal trainers is that I should reward behaviour I like and ignore behaviour I don't" she wrote. " After all, you don't get a sea lion to balance a ball on the end of its nose by nagging."

She began using "approximations", which means rewarding the small steps toward learning a whole new behavior. "With baboons you first reward a hop, then a bigger hop, then an even bigger hop," she wrote. "With Scott the husband, I began to praise every small act every time: if he drove just an hour slower, tossed one pair of shorts in the hamper, or was on time for anything."

She also learned the concept of "incompatible behaviour", training an animal in a new behaviour that would make the annoying behaviour impossible. To keep Scott from crowding her while she cooked, she set a bowl of chip and salsa across the room.
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Name: rain | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 2:27 PM
This works with children as well. This is the best post I have read in a long time. Thanks E 

Name: EthansMom0213 | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 3:56 PM
I was just going to say that rain. Actually it does work on husbands as well. I do this with my husband...LOL. 

Name: Julia | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 6:19 PM
I just posted a thread needing advice on getting my hubby to let up my daughter!! Maybe there is hope after all! hehe 

Name: maxieellis | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 7:36 PM
Wow E.... this and the other post from Julia are like a sign and a wake up call for me. I'm in a funk today....and just feel down. What do you do when everyone around you refuses to either retain what you have said......or just doesnt really help.

I have become so used to my family who I adore....just ignoring either what I say or the fact that I am just doing it....because they wont. I am aware that most of this is parenting....and it goes with the teritory. But it seems just impossible to get past certain points. Today is no exception. From the moment my lids opened this morning.....until this moment....it has been nothing but a struggle and a constant reminding game. One I am getting so sick of.

To some degree I brought this on with my daughter. I so knew nothing about having children I did everything for her. Thinking I was being a very hands on not neglecting a thing. It went to far. Now she needs to be told everyday of school what to do in the morning. From brushing her teeth. To packing up shoes for school in her backpack. Retaining the information is either a game to her.....a learned behavior....or laziness. And no I cant say for certain which one for sure. All I imagine to one degree or another. But at near seven I should think that the repeat guidence every moment it SEEMS of every day would at some point stick. I have tried everything form sticker rewards....to a mommy and me special outing...you name it......but it just is a moment in time. And then we begin again.

My son is a constant whiner. Big lip...stomps around when he doesnt get his way....and demands almost anything he is asking for. From more milk to whatever is on his mind. Like the guy at the stop light behind you. You know the one who see the light turn green at the same time you do.......but moving your foot from the brake to the gas...........isnt quick enough for him....and he just has to honk. Same thing. And oh so stuborn. This I thank my husband for. Why? Because the only thing I managed to get right it seems with my daughter was teaching her to sleep through the night. No more bottle at one year of age. Quickly assure her your still there...and bow out. And do not return. The first night was as anyone would expect. The second better...the third the best and that was it. My husband didnt say it ...exactly......but the look on his face while the crying was going on was how nasty you are. But I held my ground. And won that battel and have never had a problem there. With my son......oh....he was going to show me how it is done. And still to this day 4 and a half year later.........dad still has to get up and run. More learned behavior.....game.....and I dont care....attitude that I am now dealing with.

Me.........well lets see here.....first I give great advice at times....but cant seem to take it myself. My repeating is as far as I am concerned..........turning into just as these topic suggest........nagging. I dont know what to do.....how to get a handle on it.....where to begin.....nothing.

Ladies...maybe its just my funk today....(doubt it)...mostly in this forum....I try and help others....be a support....and just have fun. I dont want to bring anyone down..........though I need too some help and advice. I feel right now like crying.........I am exhausted and tired like many of you. I care deeply about my children ....their behavior....because I know that one day it could save their lives.....or mean their futures. I am so scared I am going to fail them.......regardless of the heart and soul I am putting into it.....it seems all wrong somehow.

Forgive me......please......I do try so very hard to be a good mother a good wife a good friend a good daughter.........but somehow I always have to learn the hard way.....but I cant have that where my kids are concerned....its not me....its there future....how do I begin correction? Before its tooooooo late. 

Name: charla | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 8:23 PM
maxie i forget how old your son is but my 3 year old is the exact same wa!!! its so aggatating ( sp?) sometimes i feel so guilty blamming myself thinking that i have overdone it on babying him my other 2 are in no way like this and to be honest i dont feel ive raised him any different but i guess all kids are different and perhaps like i said i have babyeed him a little more since he is my youngest and probobly last one . so now my life is difficult dealing with his constant whinning instead of asking for things and i am about to pull my hair out!!! 

Name: EthansMom0213 | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 8:58 PM
I don't nag because it's actually more exhausting to nag then to just not do. I actually have a box (with my husband name on it), when I clean the house I put all his stuff that he laid around the house instead of putting it away into it. If it's still in there after a week I toss it and he knows this. If it's not important enough for him to take the time to put it away, it's simply not important enough to keep.

My son is 2 will be 3 in February. If he doesn't help when it's time to pick up his toys then I will pick them up myself and he will lose them for a period of time. If he throws one of his toys at anyone I actually throw it away and he gets a time out (1 minute per year of age). If he doesn't share then we don't play with the toy that they are fighting over. If he gets mouthy he gets a time out. It may seem harsh but it actually works. Most people are actually shock at how well behaved and how polite he is. I don't spank , I think I only spanked him twice. Once for running out into the road and once for taken out the safetly outlet plug and trying to stick a toy into the outlet, we strictly do time out which seem to work. Not to say that my son doesn't have his moment he's 2. But my thought behind everything is that even though he is wrong he needs to realize these things are not okay.

My son also likes to think that I'm his slave. He will walk pass his blanket, crawl up on on the couch and then scream because he want his blanket. Or he will want his cup that is laying right next to him. I figured if he wants it bad enough that he will get it himself, I will not do it for him. I'm his mother not his slave. He can just as easily bend down over the edge of the couch and pick it up himself. And if he moves his arms a little he'll be able to pick up his own cup. Unless it is something that he seriously needs my help for I usually make him do it himself or let him try to do it himself first before I butt in.

My nephew is one of those very whinny children. But he has learned that if he cries Mommy will come running. If he falls Mommy is right there. He wake up in the middle of the night because he knows that Mommy will get up and feed him or give him something to drink. My son use to do the same thing until we wised up and realized that this was more him playing us then him needed us. Sure we had night where he would wake up and cry but unless he cried for a very long time we left him to cry, he eventually feel to sleep and eventually started sleeping through the night or just falling back to sleep right away. 

Name: EthansMom0213 | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 9:10 PM
Okay so I have this feeling that I am going to have that one person say something about the way I am raising my child. This was the one way that I have found to change certain behaviors in my son. Yelling at him isn't going to get me anywhere because the minute you yell you've already lost. You child already tuned you out. I always make sure that I get down to his level to talk to him (which helps). My son knows that he can come to me with anything. My son doesn't hit as much as he use to, he doesn't throw his toys at people because he knows he will lose them and he has started to help pick up his toys. Sometime putting your foot down means you have to be a little harder then you would want to. It is my job as his mother to teach him right from wrong. This is the only way that I found to work. I am by no way strict when it come to my son. He's allow to do most things that he want to do as long as I know he's not going to hurt himself. When I do something I explain why I did it. 

Name: maxieellis | Date: Jul 14th, 2006 10:30 PM
Hi Ladies....Charla my son is 4 and a half. I am surprised I have any hair left actually.

Ethansmom....not form me will you hear that. And can I tell you I too have done most of the same things you do also. And yes I do explain alway. Its never just NO period. Its no because.......and the results if we did it. I love your idea about the box and the stuff that doesnt get picked up....after a week...yes i like that alot....for everyone!

I falt where my voice is concerned however. I start by always asking nicely and add alway...."please". And if actually done...."thank you". But after the third time.....my voice gets louder....and I add NOW! So I have to do something about this....I come from a family of yellers....and I am about to beget a new generation. Not to mention I know.....I was a kid and there too....up at some point its tune out. I got some issues to work on myself included.

There is love really so much love too. When the day is done and I am at their bedside we talk ....again. The tone then is gentle and I point out all the wonderfull things about them besides reviewing the day and its troubles.

I'll take all the suggetions I can get girls and thank you for responding. I guess I really should of started a new thread E ...but it also seemed like a logical place at the time.

I welcome anyone to jump in or email [email protected] I'm all ears! 

Name: E | Date: Jul 15th, 2006 12:39 AM
Maxie, it's never late to correct a behavour. We don't know why your children are the way they are - it could be that they found a loophole in your discipline, or them testing how much they can bend you, or just pushing your buttons, or - at the very extreme - it could be a personality disorder.

Back posting to Nicole, I mentioned a friend of mine who had hard life as a girl. I observe that people who overcome hardships growing up have the strongest core and the best surviving skills. Now, she is a single mother of 2 girls and she works 14 hours a day/7 days a week. The girls, 15 and 7 y.o., go to school by themselves, come back, do their homework, go to music lessons, feed themselves, everything. On one hand, it could be viewed as irresponsibilityon the part of the mother, on the other hand - the girls get the best life skills training.

It is simple and hard at the same time - to just say "no". No, I won't pick up after you. No, I don't know what your homework is. But the room should be clean and the marks on the report card should be decent, because that's how you earn the vacation/trip/toys. I'd let her miss the school bus a couple of times, get an "F" on the undone essay - but how else will she learn to be responsible, if not on her own mistakes?

Being a woman as we know you, Maxie, I'm sure that you've done everything right, you might just a tad overdone it. When my second child was born, so close to my first one, I almost immediately felt that I lost that extra over-concern about my first child, that extra edge that makes children whiny and demanding. Nowadays, she knows what her responsibilities are - pick up toys, keep quiet when her brother is sleeping, not cause his crying over sharing. They both know that the rules will be upheld no matter how much they whine.

It pays to distance yourself, Maxie - let them figure life on their own, while they can afford to make mistakes. 

Name: EthansMom0213 | Date: Jul 15th, 2006 3:33 AM
Depending on the situation I will use the word please as well, for example if I want him to pick up his toys early I will say, "Ethan will you please help mommy pick up the toys off the livingroom floor." Otherwise it, "Mommy needs you to pick up your toys now because it's almost time for bed." BUt no matter what the situation is I always make sure that it's followed by a Thank you when he does it. It's come to the point now that my son says Thank you everytime someone give him something that he asks for, he knows that he first needs to say please when asking. And he'll get really upset if we don't acknowlege that he has said thank you. If he does something that we ask and don't say thank you he will actually stand by you and say, "Mommy, thank you" until you say Thank you. 

Name: Julia | Date: Jul 15th, 2006 7:00 AM
Maxie- You sound like a darn good mother to me!! You're too hard on yourself, we want to do everything right by our children, but we do not have super hero powers either! I really do not have advice for you Maxie because I honestly do not understand their behavior, you seem to be doing it right?? I hope you have a better day tomorrow! ;) 

Name: maxieellis | Date: Jul 15th, 2006 5:04 PM
Wow girls.......thank you. E your right I did overdo it on everything with both of them....just in slightly diffrent ways....and where my son is concerned....dad did to much. And too....your right about needing to let them make mistakes on their own...while they can still afford to do it. Thats so hard though for any loving mom. You want to shield them from anything painfull , hurtfull or evil. Even in the school yard.....but I have to begin...pick and choose carefully what to let them learn there own mistakes on. They are still so young....and my daughter is soooooo gentle. It is sometimes scarry. Ya know? But I have to find a starting place.

Yesterday I started Ethansmom idea of the box...stuff left out and not put away.....we'll see. I also told my son the next time he throughs anything its gone. And I got right down on the floor where he was to explain this and why.

And yes I have had a hard life.....right up until I met my husband. Not wooooisme......just my life...but your right it makes you strong...and gives you the survival skills you may need later in life. No fun being there at the time......but ...today I look at it as another time and place....but the learned skills are still there.

I want to thank you all so very much for letting me have my moment in here. I am so greatfull for that to no end. I felt better after it was a finished post.....and even better when I was responded to. I told my husband when he got home about the day.....and what I had done in the forum.....someone somewhere in a post wrote that there husbands asked if they had shared something with the "girls" think it was Nicole about being pregnant. My husband said "those girls of yours sound like great ladies....I am so glad you have them to go to". So do I think the very same .....thank you. 

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