I know there apparently seems to be medical research..but M like i said..( not a friend of mine - she was a local ) Had a premmie 24 week daughter. You cant tell me , that little miricle didnt not experience any pain until she clicked over to 28 weeks
Do you honestly believe that? ↓
|
|
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:04 PM |
Sarah this is what the medical research says about a fetus--I have not researched premature babies.
The JAMA article reviews numerous studies of fetal development. It stipulates, "Pain is an emotional and psychological experience that requires conscious recognition of a noxious stimulus." You can be jabbed without feeling pain, or feel pain without being jabbed. The pain is the mental part. To have such an experience, you need a mind—specifically, links from your thalamus to your cerebral cortex. The article concludes, "Consequently, the capacity for conscious perception of pain can arise only after thalomocortical pathways begin to function, which may occur around 29 to 30 weeks' gestational age." ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:05 PM |
| I know what you found in your copy and paste M, but i'm asking you YOUR personal opion on my little story there ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:05 PM |
| Basically, it says that a fetus does not have the brain development to be conscious of pain until around 29 to 30 weeks along. ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:06 PM |
| Name: RhondaMark | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:07 PM |
| I found this,The fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks. This is probably a conservatively late estimate, but it is scientifically solid. Elements of the pain-conveying system (spino-thalamic system) begin to be assembled at 7 weeks; enough development has occurred by 12-14 weeks that some pain perception is likely, and continues to build through the second trimester. By 20 weeks, the spino- thalamic system is fully established and connected. !!. ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:07 PM |
| Personally--I believe that if the brain is not developed enough that it is not possible. I believe the researchers. Babies do have stimulas reflexes before that stage--but not enough brain development to be conscious of pain. ↑ |
| Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:07 PM |
| Sarah of course she did. No copy and paste, personal experience. I am sure the nurses that cared for your friend took very good, loving and careful care of her. ↑ |
| Name: RhondaMark | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:08 PM |
| I have also heard that if a fetus is accidently stuck with a needle during amnio that the baby will hurry up and move away from the needle because it can feel pain!!. ↑ |
| Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:09 PM |
| Of course the baby cannot sit there and THINK "ouch, that hurts". They cannot label or identify what they feel. I think that is what they are getting at. I do think they know what they feel though, even though they cannot "identify" it. ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:09 PM |
Exactly Rhonda. Thats what i told was to be expected when they where going to test me at 18 weeks ( never did thought )
And of course that little girl did experience pain..it was a long recovery..but omg..you cant tell me that she didnt feel pain until she turned 28 weeks...that is the biggest bunch of piffle ive read in my life ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:11 PM |
How do you medically discredit this michelle:
"the capacity for conscious perception of pain can arise only after thalomocortical pathways begin to function, which may occur around 29 to 30 weeks' gestational age"
What do you know about thalomocortical pathways? I am just going by the research. ↑ |
| Name: RhondaMark | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:12 PM |
| This says,A 20-30 week old fetus actually will feel more pain than an adult. The period between 20-30 weeks is a uniquely vulnerable time, since the pain system is fully established!!. ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:12 PM |
| Rhonda--please post the link. My information is from the american medical association. Where is yours from? ↑ |
| Name: RhondaMark | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:15 PM |
| http://www.gargaro.com/fetalpain.html Try this M!!. ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:17 PM |
ok im done discussing this...i dont care what any medical board says..they should of come to australia and investigated this 24 week baby...and watch as she got poked with needles and cried her little heart out...whatever.
I dont know EXACTLY what point a baby can feel pain...no one really can..can they? a fetus doesnt talk back...i just know its definly well before 28 weeks ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:19 PM |
This following paragraph might be upsetting.......!!!!!!!!!!!!
**********
****************************************
What
of The Silent Scream?
A Realtime ultrasound video tape and movie of a 12- week suction abortion is commercially available as, The Silent Scream, narrated by Dr. B. Nathanson, a former abortionist. It dramatically, but factually, shows the pre-born baby dodging the suction instrument time after time, while its heartbeat doubles in rate. When finally caught, its body being dismembered, the baby’s mouth clearly opens wide — hence, the title (available from Heritage House '76 at http:www.heritagehouse76.com). Proabortionists have attempted to discredit this film. A well documented paper refuting their charges is available from National Right to Life, 419 7th St. NW, Washington, DC 20004, $2.00 p.p. A short, 10-minute video showing the testimony of the doctor who did the abortion in Silent Scream definitely debunks any criticism of Silent Scream’s accuracy. The Answer, Bernadel, Inc., P.O. Box 1897, Old Chelsea Station, New York, NY, 10011. ↑ |
| Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:21 PM |
conscious perception of pain
In other words the perception of what is pain and what is not. That in no way means they do not feel it, or hurt. You cannot ask them they cannot talk. ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:21 PM |
FETAL PAIN?
YES AND BY 8 WEEKS
By 8 weeks? Show me!
By this age the neuro-anatomic structures are present. What is needed is (1) a sensory nerve to feel the pain and send a message to (2) the thalamus, a part of the base of the brain, and (3) motor nerves that send a message to that area. These are present at 8 weeks. The pain impulse goes to the thalamus. It sends a signal down the motor nerves to pull away from the hurt ↑ |
| Name: RhondaMark | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:22 PM |
| I could not stand to watch that video!!.It really would have me in tears!!.It tugs at my heart just thinking about it!!. ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:24 PM |
| me too rhonda..it made me quite upset to read it ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:25 PM |
| last time i heard they refuse to do abortions past 18 weeks in australia because then it is basically killing another human being ↑ |
| Name: RhondaMark | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:28 PM |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:29 PM |
"Fetuses begin to develop a minimal brain stem at 7 weeks, but are not capable of consciousness until the third trimester and most likely remain unconscious until birth. As one brain scientist puts it: "the fetus and neonate appears incapable of ... experiencing or generating 'true' emotion or any semblance of higher order, forebrain mediated cognitive activity."
Fetal nerve cells can react to trauma, but pain reception requires a neocortex--which is not formed until early in the third trimester."
Someone research neocortex. If it is not formed until the third trimester--how can a fetus feel pain? ↑ |
| Name: hdc_momof2 | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:29 PM |
| i read a story in a little book that my church handed out to all the teens. it was titled "silent screams". this young girl went for an abortion and they had like a camera inside her so the doc could see what he was doing in there. she was watching everything he did on a screen. she herself wrote this story. she said that the doc "ripped" the limbs off of her unborn fetus. and with each one she said the babies mouth came open as if it was screaming. something to think about.... ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:30 PM |
| omg heather :( this is way too upsetting..bah ↑ |
| Name: sezbi | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:30 PM |
| everyone should be sterilizied thats it! ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:31 PM |
| Your church was using a scare tactic! Do you believe that really happened? ↑ |
| Name: hdc_momof2 | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:32 PM |
| oh i know sarah! i was about 14 when i read that story. i sobbed and sobbed. that would be when i decided that no matter what, even if my child has a disease, abortion is NOT an option!!! ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:33 PM |
| They can't put a camera in a uterus and then film an abortion--that is crazy! ↑ |
| Name: homemommichele | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:33 PM |
| Sorry, they are not unconscious until birth M...That has been proven with 3 and 4 D ultrasounds. They make purposeful movements and kicks. They can hear and react to certain kinds of music. They are not unconsious. They cannot label pain, they cannot identify it as "ouch" but they can feel. Sorry to disappoint you. ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Apr 20th, 2007 11:34 PM |
|
|
